Re: Britain looking to start the next chapter
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:39 am
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That's a very fair point of view. I can see exactly where you're coming from. It certainly can seem that the enlightenment / age of reason 'project' has failed, or is in the process of failing.
What I won't give up on is the ability to change, even if the change is not actually happening. We have demonstrated as a society that we can improve and progress IF we want to and IF we choose to. The demonstrable failures, for instance as you say in the case of things like famine and war, do not make further examples inevitable. Likely, perhaps, but not inevitable.
At the end of the day, it is not mad max out there. That's the destination when people give up on the idea of sound leadership and institutions designed to encourage cooperation. I prefer to see it as a kind of wavelength graph rather than a constantly descending or ascending line. We seem to be in a dip of cultural development right now, what with covid, brexit, trumpism and climate change, but that doesn't mean there are no peaks ahead. It's the last of those four that threatens it most by far...
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You are right not to give up on change but it’s a lot worse than mad max for a lot of people.
There is more slavery (real slavery, not low wages) in Britain than at any time in history:
Nail bars, cannabis farms, house slaves, sex slaves, gypsy dossers etc.....
Apartheid is alive and well in schools in Britain and I’m not just talking about Muslim schools.
Forced marriages
The list goes on.
I’m sure you’re more than aware of all this. I believe that the problem and therefore the answer, is micro not macro. It’s easy to blame governments and leaders. Sure they can put laws into place but those laws are ineffective unless individuals believe in them and adhere to them. Therefore law makers cannot make those laws extreme enough to make a difference, if they try ...... look at prohibition.
It would be nice to think that education would make us civilised, but we are humans, with desires and wants that are different from everyone else.
I believe that real change will only happen on a micro level:
Each person sells any vehicle (batteries are in-humane to the people of the Congo) and walks every where.
Stop eating meat - stop eating so much
No dope or cheeky lines on a Saturday night
All soldiers just take off their uniforms and go home
Sorry but the list is long and impossible because people have an inbuilt survival gene and to survive you need to improve and so it goes on.
We need to look to ourselves not our leaders it’s just as easy to ignore the bad ones as it is the good ones. Millions of people lead a happy life under Stalin — “yes, yes of course we love you” then just got on with going to work and having a life with their family and friends.
It’s been a nice discussion as always Dave - and I’ll sign off but keep reading the thread as I also need hope
That's a very fair point of view. I can see exactly where you're coming from. It certainly can seem that the enlightenment / age of reason 'project' has failed, or is in the process of failing.
What I won't give up on is the ability to change, even if the change is not actually happening. We have demonstrated as a society that we can improve and progress IF we want to and IF we choose to. The demonstrable failures, for instance as you say in the case of things like famine and war, do not make further examples inevitable. Likely, perhaps, but not inevitable.
At the end of the day, it is not mad max out there. That's the destination when people give up on the idea of sound leadership and institutions designed to encourage cooperation. I prefer to see it as a kind of wavelength graph rather than a constantly descending or ascending line. We seem to be in a dip of cultural development right now, what with covid, brexit, trumpism and climate change, but that doesn't mean there are no peaks ahead. It's the last of those four that threatens it most by far...
[/quote]
You are right not to give up on change but it’s a lot worse than mad max for a lot of people.
There is more slavery (real slavery, not low wages) in Britain than at any time in history:
Nail bars, cannabis farms, house slaves, sex slaves, gypsy dossers etc.....
Apartheid is alive and well in schools in Britain and I’m not just talking about Muslim schools.
Forced marriages
The list goes on.
I’m sure you’re more than aware of all this. I believe that the problem and therefore the answer, is micro not macro. It’s easy to blame governments and leaders. Sure they can put laws into place but those laws are ineffective unless individuals believe in them and adhere to them. Therefore law makers cannot make those laws extreme enough to make a difference, if they try ...... look at prohibition.
It would be nice to think that education would make us civilised, but we are humans, with desires and wants that are different from everyone else.
I believe that real change will only happen on a micro level:
Each person sells any vehicle (batteries are in-humane to the people of the Congo) and walks every where.
Stop eating meat - stop eating so much
No dope or cheeky lines on a Saturday night
All soldiers just take off their uniforms and go home
Sorry but the list is long and impossible because people have an inbuilt survival gene and to survive you need to improve and so it goes on.
We need to look to ourselves not our leaders it’s just as easy to ignore the bad ones as it is the good ones. Millions of people lead a happy life under Stalin — “yes, yes of course we love you” then just got on with going to work and having a life with their family and friends.
It’s been a nice discussion as always Dave - and I’ll sign off but keep reading the thread as I also need hope