Unions...have they had their day

[Mike101]

Right then you lot here goes...!

With the news today of the closure of Grangemouth and the owners blaming the union the quesiton is this...have unions in their current shape had their day?

We all know how the unions were blamed for the end of british bike production..i wasn't there so i can't really comment on that other that waht i've read.

I am extremley anti union in some situaitons and strongly pro them in others.

Please indugle me here and if you don't want to contribute to the debate please move onto another thread.

I'd like to see where this goes as we have a good sample of normal people from all classes and walk of life on here..ok well maybe not that normal but you get my point.

What say you all?

Mike

[AndyB]

I'm a Manager so the unions are more use to my employees than me but I've been a union member all my working life and I'll continue to be one until I retire.

It's not what they can do for you as an individual that should dictate whether you join or not but what they do for the workforce as a whole and they do serve a useful purpose. As someone working in heavy engineering I'm glad that they fought to get us realistic break times, longer annual holidays, safer working conditions and proper mess/washing facilities because 38 years ago when I started my apprenticeship it was a lot worse.

I've learned something new today anyway; I was always told that it was lack of investment in modern machinery and manufacturing techniques that screwed the British bike industry but apparently some think it was the unions :whistle:

[Treadtrader]

We all know how the unions were blamed for the end of british bike production..i wasn't there so i can't really comment on that other that waht i've read.
[/quote)

I think the blame was on useless, greedy management that refused to invest in modern production machinery.

Now, as for the car industry................................ :whistle:

[Mike101]

I get you perspective. I work in IT and unions have never really made in inroads here.

The good points to them are as you have said...they have made some parts of industry safer which i of course welcome.

But i think the union 'ethos' is abused by people not wanting to work hard. I was a manager in the civil service for a number of years and i saw this abuse first hand.

I won't go into the detials but i feel the principal is right but the application of the union is wrong.

Mike

[coyotedave]

The unions as we knew them were crushed under the hammer of that shop keepers daughter.
They are a lot softer in there approach to working with managers and company's. I work in the chemical industry, work continental shifts. They have been a help in wage structure and working conditions. We are a multi national company with many factories so we have been able to secure working strictures throughout the many factories. This has been possible with the union reps from each site working with the union area reps.

In my own opinion they still have a place on the ( shop ) floor of small and large company's.

Both men and woman died in the fight for workers rights.


Cheers Dave.

[Africa John]

Unions have a role to play but Unite's stated position of opposition to the coalition government and its debt repayment policies and structured action is a bad move

I'm sure no one in the upper tiers of Unite will be losing their salaries or perks following the closure of Grangemouth but a lot of decent people will be. I wonder if they will see through the deceit and lies of their union bosses when the dust settles

Unions have achieved a lot to improve the pay and conditions of working people but we as a nation no longer have mass industries (steel, mining, fishing, engineering) they have lost their mass and therefore a lot of their influence.

I am supportive of them but I think Grangemouth is a case of lions led by donkeys and the lessons we will learn in the future will cast a bleak shadow on Unite and their tactics

We shall see

John

[Gas_Up_Lets_Go]

have unions in their current shape had their day?

In my opinion, yes.

Why ?

Certainly over the years during and following the industrial revolution, they were a drive for better conditions. But in recent years....

They seam less inclined to help workers and more inclined to fight the government of the day, they see employers as the enemy and not the hand that feeds. Union leaders talk tough, but it's not them that suffer during strikes, closure or lay-offs.

Unions don't create employment, they fight those that do - Grangemouth is a perfect example.

I have no time for them.

I'm sure Grangemouth will re-open, under a new owner, and some people will get jobs, with lower wages than what was on the table yesterday, well done Mr Union....

[Jelly]

I've laid bricks on site for the vast majority of my working life, what's a union? :dry:

[lancashirelad]

I worked in the building trade for 43yrs before taking early retirement (luckily) on a final salary pension, was a union member for all of those years without unions the building trade was a dangerous environment, but I will admit H+S has run riot but there is still a need for unions but not the old Red Robbo types.

[andymac]

ive worked in the oil/gas industry since 1982 & all of it with a very strong union backing, its the only thing that has kept the management & company at bay, maintaining my terms & conditions & from picking people off one by one as they feel fit. "power to the people"!!!!! B)