Adventure Bike Rider Forum

DavidS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:37 am It’s far far easier to justify the status quo than read a crystal ball.
That’s not to say that I don’t accept it’s virtually impossible to specify what ‘improvements’ will come out of leave but if people and countries didn’t push the metaphorical boundaries then we would still be living in the dark ages. Sometimes you know in your heart it’s the right thing to do.

DavidS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:37 am
By the way, vast numbers of these migrants (not genuine refugees) are finding the substantial funds (apparently about £7k per person now) to pay the nasty little facilitators to get to Europe, money that could be far better used at home, I suspect.

Elmer J Fudd wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:24 pm Question:

If we are out of the EU and migrants / refugees come across to the UK via the EU, what can we do with them?

Can we just send them back to wherever we think they came from (France / Ireland etc. as is the current situation)? Or, having left the EU, can those countries just refuse to take them back, which would actually make things worse in the UK?

I don't know the answer; does anyone?

DavidS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm Obviously I’m not talking about EU migration
The migrants’ first country of safety is where they should stay. Fair enough, Malta or Cyprus can’t cope but farming them out isn’t the way to deal with it.
The EU turns a blind eye in many many cases and just let them drift through and France, in particular don’t seem fussed about dealing with it. It just says that they will be looked after and makes the idea more attractive so where do you draw the line? Do you let everyone in? Quotas? What is the wonderful EUs plan? It seems reactive, not proactive.
I am only against essentially uncontrolled immigration, not immigration per se.
There is a rush at the moment as the traffickers are telling them that the UK will shut them down once we leave. Whether that happens or not, goodness knows.

daveuprite wrote:

Tramp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:48 am Except france where its near impossible to work as a non frenchman.....

Not the case Russ. I, and many people I know, are not French but we run small businesses here in France. There's a fair bit of bureaucracy and paperwork to get registered etc but it's very do-able. My wife Tracie works 24 hours a week for a french 'association', gets a salary paid in Euros (obviously) and full employment rights under French law . Getting work in France is quite possible. But the point is that a french salaried job is a proper job. You get a contract, agreed contracted working hours, sick pay and paid holiday entitlement. For that reason workers are required to take paid training courses, or to join metiers (kind of industry guilds) if self-employed. A frenchman can't legally just buy a van, call himself a builder and get on with it. He has to have all the correct accreditation and training etc. There are no zero-hour, zero-rights, hire-and-fire jobs in France (unless they're illegal and on the black of course). Partly as a result, unemployment is higher here, but exploitation and poor-quality jobs are much lower. You are either in a properly regulated salaried job or you are unemployed, looking for a job and looked after by the state. There is very little in the way of dodgy middle ground, as there is in the UK. Taxes are also higher than the UK, although public services are much better in return.

But all of the above requires a fairly settled status. To apply for french employment you will need a steady home, time and patience to apply, money to tide you over while you are job-seeking etc etc. All things unavailable to migrants who left with little, arrive suddenly and unconventionally, and need work as soon as possible. The UK's less-regulated workplaces offer far more chances to get started quickly than France does, although the down-side is the jobs migrants tend to get will often be contract-less, involve poor working conditions, exploited, unreliable and poorly paid. In fact the very conditions that many UK job-seekers do not want. Which is why the fields of Lincolnshire were (until recently) full of Eastern European fruit-pickers.

johnnyboxer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:12 pm

daveuprite wrote:

Tramp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:48 am Except france where its near impossible to work as a non frenchman.....

Not the case Russ. I, and many people I know, are not French but we run small businesses here in France. There's a fair bit of bureaucracy and paperwork to get registered etc but it's very do-able. My wife Tracie works 24 hours a week for a french 'association', gets a salary paid in Euros (obviously) and full employment rights under French law . Getting work in France is quite possible. But the point is that a french salaried job is a proper job. You get a contract, agreed contracted working hours, sick pay and paid holiday entitlement. For that reason workers are required to take paid training courses, or to join metiers (kind of industry guilds) if self-employed. A frenchman can't legally just buy a van, call himself a builder and get on with it. He has to have all the correct accreditation and training etc. There are no zero-hour, zero-rights, hire-and-fire jobs in France (unless they're illegal and on the black of course). Partly as a result, unemployment is higher here, but exploitation and poor-quality jobs are much lower. You are either in a properly regulated salaried job or you are unemployed, looking for a job and looked after by the state. There is very little in the way of dodgy middle ground, as there is in the UK. Taxes are also higher than the UK, although public services are much better in return.

But all of the above requires a fairly settled status. To apply for french employment you will need a steady home, time and patience to apply, money to tide you over while you are job-seeking etc etc. All things unavailable to migrants who left with little, arrive suddenly and unconventionally, and need work as soon as possible. The UK's less-regulated workplaces offer far more chances to get started quickly than France does, although the down-side is the jobs migrants tend to get will often be contract-less, involve poor working conditions, exploited, unreliable and poorly paid. In fact the very conditions that many UK job-seekers do not want. Which is why the fields of Lincolnshire were (until recently) full of Eastern European fruit-pickers.

Sounds like French have it right

Trev wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:41 am to become the United Kingdom of England with about as much influence as Iceland on a bad week.

Asgard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:14 pm It does seem like mission accomplished for projekt fear if this place is any indicator (I'm not entirely sure it is though).

One question for any legal-heads in here: If no deal is reached and Boris has legaly to ask for an extension, then whats to stop him going to brussels and basicaly saying something like

'I want an extension on article 50 for lets say a couple of months to get xmas over with, I don't really care if you grant it and dont expect things will be any different when this latest extension has ended but those barstards in parliament have forced me to ask you, so waddya say'

well waddya say?