EU Membership Key Demands

[misterlaffer]

If they start giving the UK what they demand, other EU countries will start demanding stuff then the whole EU will fall apart. Germany can't allow that to happen.
quote]

From where I've been sitting, many countries have "demanded stuff" and got it!

Some other countries just pay lip service to the rules but take what they want.

We have played the game badly, we need to become more streetwise, we have the economic clout, so should use it. (thumbs)

Stay in and make "Johnny Foreigner" pay!!

Bang on. (thumbs) How many of us on here have been over to Spain etc on our bikes and marvelled at the superb road conditions - in some of the most rural areas ? Paid by the EU I am told, so why do we in the UK have to put up with so many pot-holes ?

[AndyB]

We can't carry on as we are but if Cameron can gain a number of concessions along with promises that we will remain exempt from legislation that we don't want to be part of then as far as I'm concerned we should stay in. The big problem won't be persuading other governments that they need to make those concessions, it'll be those governments persuading their own voters that they're not selling them down the river by allowing us to cherry pick the parts we like and reject the rest.

Getting out of the EU won't solve immigration problems because it's the illegals we need to stop and most of them don't produce their passport as they sneak into the tunnel so that's just a distraction. I think the French will be more likely to help us keep them out if we're still in the EU but if we've left then they might as well open the doors and let them out :pinch:

On the issue of jobs I think we'll lose more than we gain. Who actually wants the jobs that all those nasty east Europeans are doing? I don't want to work in a distribution centre on a zero hours contract being paid the minimum wage and neither do many others.

Will the likes of Nissan carry on manufacturing cars in the UK if the EU put trade tariffs in place? I doubt it. Will someone else step into the breach and fill those gaps? Unlikely.

Will London remain a European 'Powerhouse' when it comes to commerce? I think there'll be a net loss but obviously some will say that's a good thing because the workers in that sector are all overpaid lazy scum :whistle:

Will companies from non EU countries suddenly invest billions here? I can't see it because what will they invest in? We're not exactly at the cutting edge when it comes to manufacturing with probably one of the only areas we lead the rest in being motorsport and if we stop making the EU nationals from Mercedes and Renault as welcome that'll go.

Our defence industry will take a hit if we quit the EU because we rely on joint ventures to enable us to pay for new projects but that'll come under pressure as will our ability to export weapons to other EU countries. Will we be offered as much work on future Airbus projects if we quit? Maybe but maybe not.

We'll gain by refusing to pay benefits to Europeans and refusing them free medical treatment but the hospitals won't suddenly become less crowded because a lot will either take out insurance the same as we'll have to do when away in Europe or they'll take it on their toes and not pay. We're not going to leave people dying in their homes or on the streets because they're not British. How much in hard cash will that net gain be though? It'll be cut because we don't want foreigners doing the lower paid jobs in hospitals and not too many British people want those jobs.

What we actually want is a strong minded government that will stand up to the EU but we haven't had one for a long time and I don't think we've got one right now.

[-Ralph-]

I wonder whether those in charge of the 1973 UK entry into the EEC had any inkling of the direction this body would take, expanding from 9 with UK, Ireland and Denmark, to now 28 with Albania, Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia and Turkey waiting in the wings and three more lined up after that.

I wish Cameron well in his negotiations. The French and Germans want the referendum in 2016 so as not to interfere with the French presidential and German federal elections in 2017. So if I was Cameron I would be holding that over them. Even so I really doubt whether Cameron can bring enough guaranteed changes to the table in time (our referendum has to be before December 2017).

There's going to be a lot of arguing whether we will be better off financially in or out of Europe, but I think the real issue for many people is sovereignty. Also the unaccountability of Brussels/Strasbourg (why do they need two parliament buildings?), the perceived gravy train, and their inability to get their accounts signed off.

An awful lot would have to change before I would consider voting to remain in the EU.

And democracy. We didn't fight two world wars and win so we could have laws forced upon us by Brussels.

[AndyB]

The laws are 'forced' onto us because our older relatives (and no doubt some posters too) chose to join what was then the Common Market. If you look on it as being very similar to the way some UK laws are forced on areas that neither want nor need them then it doesn't seem as odd.

The majority of legislation passed in this country is done by a government voted in by less than 50% of the electorate and it's been that way for decades but we have to put up with that so focusing on things passed by Brussels is only looking at a small part of the picture.

We often see the differences between England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales being raised along with the amount paid into the big pot by each individual country so what is the major difference between the UK and the EU?

[AndyB]

Another point is that we fought two World Wars so we didn't have laws forced on us by Berlin, Brussels was actually on our side :whistle:

[Crossrutted]

The laws are 'forced' onto us because our older relatives (and no doubt some posters too) chose to join what was then the Common Market.quote]

The EU construct is a VERY different animal now. What was a club for economic benefit now seems to be attempt to build a single state.

We let the rules be changed - should have resisted earlier, harder.

[AndyB]

The laws are 'forced' onto us because our older relatives (and no doubt some posters too) chose to join what was then the Common Market.quote]

The EU construct is a VERY different animal now. What was a club for economic benefit now seems to be attempt to build a single state.

We let the rules be changed - should have resisted earlier, harder.

I can't disagree with that. What we need to do now is negotiate to try to get to where we should have been because if that can be achieved then we'll benefit more than by simply walking away.

The thing that remains to be seen is do the other members feel that they need us enough to fight to keep us?

[Crossrutted]

The thing that remains to be seen is do the other members feel that they need us enough to fight to keep us?

Despite the posturing, they want us to stay in. We just need to play our strong hand well.
So we need negotiators with steady nerves and intelligence.......


so we're screwed!!

[jonny955]

This referendum is more important than any General Election and I only hope the parties, the political classes and the media do not 'do one' on us! Fat chance, I hear you say..

There is also the same fat chance that Cameron will be able to divert the EU from "Ever Closer Union".

Whatever the economic, holiday travel pros/cons and scaremongering, membership of the current EU has taken a big bite out of two things we held precious - Sovereignty and Democracy
.

Are we willing to further relinquish these, in return for the 'benefits' :S ?

Jon

[AndyB]

The thing that remains to be seen is do the other members feel that they need us enough to fight to keep us?

Despite the posturing, they want us to stay in. We just need to play our strong hand well.
So we need negotiators with steady nerves and intelligence.......


so we're screwed!!

Just have someone sitting in the background with a taser and whenever the French chip in with a "Non!" let them have it.

Yeah, we're screwed.