EU. In or out?

[AndyB]

They wouldn't be calling for a 2nd Referendum if the result had gone the way they wanted, would they. Utterly ridiculous :whistle: . Sort of like wanting a second bite of the cherry.

If the situation was reversed would you sign it?

Nope. As you said, I'd stand by the original democratic (and fair) vote. We all knew the rules before we voted.

Even though you were lied too and that your expectations will never be met ???

Both campaigns lied and only a fool didn't know they were being lied to all the way through it. The only option now is to try to reunite the country and make this work.

[Mike54]

The problem is Andy that by definition, a fool is a fool, and it seems that many voted on the basis of a revolt against austerity and cameron/osborne without a real understanding of what the EU is and what it does.

When we look at the trade agreements with the EU their first and non-negotiable condition will be free movement of labour.

It strikes me that boris etc didnt actually expect to win this, and now they have they are just scratching their collective heads and saying "shit, now what?"

[The Sarge]

They wouldn't be calling for a 2nd Referendum if the result had gone the way they wanted, would they. Utterly ridiculous :whistle: . Sort of like wanting a second bite of the cherry.

If the situation was reversed would you sign it?

Nope. As you said, I'd stand by the original democratic (and fair) vote. We all knew the rules before we voted.

Even though you were lied too and that your expectations will never be met ???

Both campaigns lied and only a fool didn't know they were being lied to all the way through it. The only option now is to try to reunite the country and make this work.

The remain so called 'scaremongering' came true within hours and there will be a recession as a result, The French have already said "THERE WILL BE NO RE- NEGOTIATING", Juncker is insisting 'no time wasting get on with it ' The country is deeply divided and I have grave doubts it will recover, the divide has never been greater. Once Scotland has its referendum it wil be In-ger-land and the idiots in my own back yard Wales, to maintain a stable economy in what is left of Great Britain.

[onslowe]

Sadly for the Remain camp they based their strategy on hoping Farage and Boris made an arse of themselves and negativity regarding an exit vote. Quite frankly having the likes of Blair, Major, Izzard, Obama and of course Moto AL telling people how to vote was probably enough to swing the vote to leave. The CEO of the company I work for also sent an e-mail to us all telling us we had to vote Remain (otherwise he would lose millions on his shares) and things like that pissed off plenty of people. Like many others yesterday I lost plenty of money on shares and know I will be worse off for a couple of years but I genuinely hope and believe that in about 5 years we will be in a better position without the EU telling us how to run our country. The EU was getting too overbearing and should have taken a step back when given a chance, who wants all European countries to be the same ? If I go abroad I prefer to experience their culture, laws and difference in character, the way the EU was going they would have every country the same which would be a ridiculous situation. As for a 2nd referendum that is just sour grapes, there is no going back so lets just crack on and make the best of it.

[Scott_rider]

The problem is Andy that by definition, a fool is a fool, and it seems that many voted on the basis of a revolt against austerity and cameron/osborne without a real understanding of what the EU is and what it does.

Says who? Maybe those who voted OUT had an understanding of what the EU is and came up with a different conclusion to those who voted IN.

[jaffa1963]

Even though you were lied too and that your expectations will never be met ???

99% of politicians lie and 100% use spin and misinformation.

Everyone commenting on this thread clearly has some brains, so can research matters and ask questions before making a balanced judgement.

That's what we all did before voting. If voters don't do that then it's tough but democratic.

I know someone who voted in because they didn't think they'd be allowed to go on holiday to Spain if we came out.

Ignorance and stupidity are not solely traits of the vote OUTs lmao.

And Sarge... things will be difficult at first but they have the potential to be a lot better.

The pound has already recovered against the Euro to an extent where it is higher now than at quite a few times in the last 2 years. A lot of these short term fluctuations are down to uncertainty and the need for bankers to speculate and make money.

Who says long term remaining in would have been rosy? It's a gamble to stay in or go out. But the remain prefer "the devil they know".

Fact... there is one person to blame for this referendum decision...

Cameron.

Until he went to Europe a couple years ago "to get us a better deal or leave" the average Brit hadn't even considered this an issue.

His first mistake was threatening something he was clearly not willing to do. You never make threats you are not willing to follow through.

His second mistake was coming back with nothing and lying, stating he'd got us a great deal. He shouldn't have lied but should have said he'd failed but had tried his best, adding that he still felt we were better off in Europe.

His third mistake was then promising the referendum.

So we should all stop the recriminations, stupid accusations and work together to get the best from this .

[-Ralph-]

The mob have indeed spoken and British culture and identity have been reaffirmed for sure, which is what people wanted and if you're proud of that culture then you'll see that as a good thing. Britain should have its own culture and identity just like all the other countries around the world do.

My problem is I've always been a black sheep, I don't like it, and I don't like Britain. I've known that I don't like Britain ever since childhood, but I didn't know why, then I started University, moved in with French and Portuguese people, had a long term relationship with an immigrant from Sri Lanka, and started to open my eyes to the wider world.

BNP are the worst of British culture most would agree with that they are simply racist, UKIP are extreme in my opinion, wanting to curb immigration and close our borders down, many won't agree that is extreme, and I'm not suggesting that British people are all like that at all, but clearly the result shows than more than half do lean further that way than they do the other way, and clearly the English and Welsh lean further that way than the Scots or the Irish.

I've never had more than a couple of fortnight long flings with a British woman, I just find the mentality too much like hard work. All of my long term relationship have been with a foreign woman. Most of my friends are foreigners who regularly comment how different I am to most British people, or they are British people who have travelled extensively, or lived abroad.

I am happy living here because the economy and language allow me to earn a salary, which I couldn't earn elsewhere in Europe, and that salary allows me to live in a happy little bubble in an affluent village in the countryside, surrounded by my friends and family, enjoying the good things in life, and I'll be able to retire early. So I am happy living in UK and to up sticks and start again somewhere else would be mental. But if that bubble ever bursts for some reason, and it becomes a question of happiness, I'll emigrate in a shot regardless of how poor it would make me, or even if I'd have to work until the day I die.

My challenge now is to convince my wife that staying is the right thing to do, as I know what's going round in her head. She and all my foreign friends in the UK, woke up yesterday feeling shocked, upset, and unwelcome. There have been a lot of tears and all of them have questioned whether its time to go home. Now, nobody is telling them they have to go home, nobody is saying they aren't welcome, but that doesn't change the fact that's the way the referendum result has made them feel.

Scotland will almost certainly leave the UK now, and while I didn't support that 2 years ago, I would support it now. If Scotland goes Northern Ireland will probably go too, there's already a lot of noise about that. We haven't had a UK wide referendum for a long time where it's one vote for one vote, and it's shown what a huge democratic disadvantage they are at. Just like the UK don't have a big enough voice in Brussels, they don't have a big enough voice in the UK, democratically what England wants, England gets. Gibraltar, may end up joining Spain. The United Kingdom is far from being United.

So we may well end up living in a small country, with a fence around it, which may or may not include the awkward neighbour Wales, who don't really want to be there and the Welsh and the English by and large don't like each other anyway.

It will be a very English country, with a strong identity, which my be what the English want, but "Great Britain" will be dead.

[The Sarge]

And Sarge... things will be difficult at first but they have the potential to be a lot better.


As an Employer I have the responsibility of my Employee's to consider so forgive my lack of enthusiasm in being out. Personally it would be easy for me to up-sticks and live in France which is the most likely outcome, but right now their welfare comes first. The potential you talk about is not being talked about on the trading floors Worldwide this morning, there is no confirmed plan on what happens next and no certainty that any negotiation with our former partners will be positive.

So what do we know ? Well uncertainty de-stabilises economy, which historically leads to recession. Mark Carney for-warned this and I certainly believe him over any politician. However his £250bn liquid asset to back up the Banks is peanuts in real terms, the FTSE 250 not FTSE 100 fell by 7.19% yesterday which equates to 100's of millions in one day, how long will the support last, nobody knows? The longer it takes to sort out the greater the uncertainty, and so it continues............

[Dutchgit]

so how does it help the uk to stay with a bunch of cheating,near bankrupt euro losers, mama merkal can look after the brood herself.

You'll find out what happens either way in due time.

Just don't expect the NHS in better repair, lower housing prices, less immigrants, higher pay or any other of the things promised to you by/via the Daily rag if Brexit happens.

Just don't cry foul play at your government when it turns to shit because the ones in charge now will be gone.

I hate to say "I told you so" but there it is.

[Loggy]

Apparently a petition calling for a second referendum has topped 1million signatures. Mine won't be joining them even though I'd sooner we stayed in because it was a fair vote and if anyone didn't vote and now feels unhappy about the result they can spend the rest of their life spewing as far as I'm concerned.

You can't live in a democracy then cry because you don't get what you want and if you don't like it just sod off and live somewhere else. I left when Thatcher got voted in because I hated the decision the country had made and everyone else has that choice this time. Before I see anyone saying they can't then consider that I was 20 years old, had just finished my apprenticeship and went with a hold-all and under £500 in my pocket (thumbs)

Couldn't agree more Andy. We live in a democracy. We had a democratic vote. Everyone was exposed to the same information and a decision was made. I find it highly disturbing that people are now whinging and making headlines from an online petition of over a million signatures. If all those are "new" signatures then it would have resulted in a Remain vote. However I guess many of those are from Remain voters that didn't like the result and are trying to sway another vote in the hope of turning the decision around. Even if this was to happen and we voted again and got a Remain vote, can you imagine what our relationship with the EU would be like after??? I hope this gets short shrift in Parliament.

I don't agree with people that say Article 50 should be delayed. We voted for OUT and the process should start immediately. The EU leaders are quite rightly demanding we invoke Article 50 immediately. It will just cause uncertainty and actually cause more harm than good. Lets invoke Article 50 and crack on with it. The sooner we sort it out the less acrimonious it will be and everything can get back on track...