Adventure Bike Rider Forum

-Ralph- wrote:Video still bangs on about the green lanes being "roads" though.

They were once upon a time roads, now they are only roads in the eyes of a legal technicality, and in the eyes of trail riders.

According to the law sleeping in the back seat of a car drunk with the keys in your pocket, makes you a drink driver, but nobody in society applying common sense accepts that person is a criminal.

Nobody in society accepts that unsurfaced green lanes are roads. Banging on about it does trail riding no favours whatsoever. It just doesn't make any sense to the average Joe, so there's no point using that argument to try any convince the average Joe.

If you want to change somebody's mind about something you need to speak their same language.

The stuff in there about footpaths/walkers, bridleways/horse riders/cyclists, BOAT's/UCR's/trail riders, all having equal right to enjoy the countryside legally on their own classification of trail is a much more compelling argument, which other people understand because that's why they are there too.

But call it a trail not a road, and use language that people other than trail riders actually understand. Education is needed, but the second you try and tell the average Joe the muddy track you're standing on is a road, he stops listening and thinks you're an idiot.

I'm a member of the Motorcycling Club (founded 1901) and have done the Land's End, Exeter, and Edinburgh "trials"--originally conceived by gentlemen who wanted to try and get their new powered devices from London to Land's End etc on the "roads"--the fact that they weren't surfaced with tarmac did not make them "trails"--yes we are blessed with paving the planet now--but even I grew up on a "non adopted " road that was still gravel etc--and if you travel the world there are still plenty of roads that are not black!--calling them trails instead of roads sends us on a path to losing them altogether. I have spent many an hour with saw etc hacking my way down a "road" to make it passable for just two wheels--you will rarely see a "rambler" or horse rider doing the same--if you don't use it you will lose it--and thats the key--we must continue to make the effort to get out there and will have to put up with a bit of abuse and misunderstanding--its a crusade!

catcitrus wrote:...its a crusade!

A war based on a belief in an invisible and unprovable entity invariably ending in thousands of deaths and centuries of conflict? Hmm. Not sure I agree.

This is the sort of thing that the TRF needs rather than concentrating on restrictions on what members can say and introduction of more procedures that will eventually lead to a situation that members can't do anything.

Indoctrination is the word that comes to mind.

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The following is a posting that has been deleted from the TRF website, presumably because it is defamatory, not sure how that conclusion has been reached so will leave you to make up your own minds, the only thing I can think of is that the suggestion does not give the directors the power they crave.

"Greetings,

I have just a few hours ago returned home too late to send my comments to the Directors as the deadline has expired and the post regarding proposed new policies is locked. You might recall that I requested an extension of the deadline date but I never received the courtesy of a reply.

I offer my suggested wording for the two policies for possible discussion, they are purposefully single page documents and seek to form the basis of a clear conciliatory approach for inclusivity;

TRF Enquiries and Complaints Policy.

Policy Statement

The TRF believes that if a person wishes to make a complaint or to register a concern then they should find it easy to do so. It shall be our policy to welcome complaints and to look upon them as an opportunity to learn; to adapt and thereby to provide improved services to our Members.

This policy is intended to ensure that complaints are dealt with honestly; fairly; transparently; without prejudice and that all complaints or comments by Members or external complainants are taken seriously.

This policy is not designed to; apportion blame; to consider the possibility of negligence nor to provide any form of financial compensation.

The TRF believes that failure to listen to or to acknowledge any complaint will lead to; an aggravation of problems; dissatisfaction and possible resignation of a Member. The TRF supports the concept that most complaints, if dealt with early, openly and honestly, can be sorted out amicably.

Aims.

The aims of the TRF are to ensure that its complaints procedure is properly and effectively implemented, and that Members will feel confident that all complaints and worries are listened to and acted upon promptly and fairly by ensuring;

a single named Directorship will be responsible for the overall administration of the procedure
that all persons should be fully aware of how to complain and to whom
every written complaint will be acknowledged within ten working days of receipt and investigations into written complaints are to be held within 28 days
were a case is complex, or involves a number of issues, or involves a third party, extra time may be required to make sure that the investigation has covered all aspects, an explanation will be provided to all parties to set an effective deadline for completion.

Decision making.

Directors and TRF officials should be able to act on their own initiative in the first instance, if the perceived problem cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of the complainant then it should be passed to a higher authority for action.

If the perceived problem cannot be resolved by the Director then a review may be requested and the enquiry reviewed by a panel of no less than three Directors, a minimum of two must agree the final outcome.

If the complainant is still dissatisfied then the final decision will be made by a meeting of four Directors and a minimum of three must agree the outcome. At this point the internal complaint procedure will be closed and the complainant invited to seek external resolution.



Acceptance date of this Policy; …………………………………….


Signature of a Director or the Chairperson; ……………………………………..


Target review date; …………………………………….


Promoted Events Policy.

Definition.

A ‘Promoted Event’ shall be any event organised, offered and/or run by the TRF or its member Groups.

Scope.

This policy is intended to cover any activity which promotes the TRF to its Members and to interested external parties.

All motorcycle riding events are to be cognisant of the TRF Code Of Conduct plus those of LARA and ACU as might be appropriate to the nature of the event

Events may be offered to all Members and Non Members, unless there is a specific serious reason why not.

All events must seek to promote the TRF in its caring nature, cognisant of the TRF’s least impact approach plus any local or national bylaws and similar such legislation as may be appropriate.

If an event is to be run using public facilities then the event organisers must consider any requirement to inform other user groups, neighbours and/or such Authorities as might need so advising. The TRF intends to be a good neighbour and to promote such an attitude in all of its activities.

Organised Run Events.

These should be operated with due consideration to those who might wish to join the activity. Run leaders should show consideration as far as is reasonably possible to the experience and equipment of those taking part.

All participants are to follow the TRF’s Code of Conduct.

So far as is reasonably practicable events will be advertised on the TRF forum, giving notice of the general scope of the activity, areas in which it will take place plus contact details of an organiser.

The run leader shall have the authority to reject applicants but must state their reasons to the applicant in a respectful manner. If a potential attendee is aggrieved by exclusion then they may complain to the TRF under the terms of its Complaint Policy.

Contravention.

All event organisers and operators must be mindful that they are representing the TRF in the broadest of contexts and shall take all reasonable precautions to ensure that the TRF is suitably represented in a positive way.

If an event is considered not to have been so organised and/or operated then concerned parties may refer their reasons in the first instance to the event organiser and if necessary afterwards to the TRF Directors for investigation and suitable action as appropriate under the TRF’s policies.

Acceptance date of this Policy; …………………………………….

Signature of a Director or the Chairperson; ……………………………………..

Target review date; …………………………………….



I appreciate that some of the wording might need changing but would suggest that they are less punitive and should be more clearly understood."

I am sorry Peter .. but is this the very sort of verbose legalese verbosity rubbish that puts people off the TRF?
(no personal offence intended.)

garyboy wrote:I am sorry Peter .. but is this the very sort of verbose legalese verbosity rubbish that puts people off the TRF?
(no personal offence intended.)

I believe the text Peter copied was a TRF members suggested alternative to a TRF discussion document that gave concerning powers to the TRF Director's re effectively banning members from the Fellowship if they don't toe the Director's rules....

It's removal from the TRF forum demonstrates everything that is currently wrong with the TRF central management.

(Happy to be corrected on any of the above)

o right ... apologies it is then :pinch:

garyboy wrote:I am sorry Peter .. but is this the very sort of verbose legalese verbosity rubbish that puts people off the TRF?
(no personal offence intended.)

The trouble is being a "representative" of a group of people can lead one into legal waters with regard to the care and duty of members during organised events.Without one the liklyhood of being prosecuted by a member or legal body is high so a disclaimer of some kind will be more of a need to prevent undue claims and highlight responsibility lies not just with the organiser.

This said if it is a suggested being used as a stick to punish members who call out decisions made on their behalf then one has to wonder how it evolved in the first place without a majority approval.

The trf has been influential in the recent re opening of two very good tro'd lanes in the north of England. one near Whitby and one in county durham.
These kind of results just goes to show that the trf are the only biking group with the legal clout to overturn these traffic orders....well done trf legal and all others involved,well worth the membership fee.