Adventure Bike Rider Forum

Jak* wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:00 pm A great day for the rich and powerful elite who backed the Leave campaign.

Like Blair , Major , Brown , May , Branson , 90 % of the BBC , 85 % of Sky , 70 % of ITV , 75 % of then MPs and the House of Lords .

garyboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm

daveuprite wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:04 pm Good Lord! This post just reveals the naivete of brexiteers, and the success of Johnson/Cummins in pulling the wool over your eyes.

Brexit will not 'happen on 31st January. Do you seriously for one moment believe that? Hillarious. Are you that really gullible? Why are you so content to be lied to?

Legally and constitutionally, Brexit is unlikely to 'happen' for about 5-10 years. That is how long it will take to disengage decades of collaboration and cooperation. Brexiteers have been told this umpteen times by those who really know but they chose not to believe it.

The winners will not be those who voted for it, most of whom stand to lose big time. The winners will be the lawyers and consultants, ironically the very people that brexiteers tend to despise.

It doesn't matter that a wafer-thin majority of voters nearly 4 years ago, persuaded by lies and criminal deception, voted to 'leave'. It is still a massive mistake. Mistakes are mistakes. It doesn't matter that they are popular/populist. They remain a mistake.

Hi Dave .. my understanding is that the end of January is planned to be the WAB.. (the withdrawal agreement Bill) .. the date that Boris hopes to have the UK legally leave the EU, or at least, the basis of the agreement on which the UK will legally go it alone.. once the Lords have passed it, of course.

The deal is given, by Boris, until the end of the year to come to trade and legal agreements, etc .. tho many are sceptical of theis short time frame … but it IS possible, given that much of the agreements have already been thrashed out by T May.

Then comes the Transition Period .. is it one or two years? 2 I think? …. and the idea is that during all this time, the UK will take on all the EU laws and deals etc into UK Law.

I don't think anyone thinks that it will be an overnight `cliff edge` … and as you say, I think many of the existing laws, deals, and ways, will be maintained by the UK .. making the departure less traumatic than many people think.

You are conflating a few things Gary, but it doesn't really matter. What is shocking and so sad is how willing so many people were to believe the tory lie that voting for them would 'get brexit done', and the accompanying deception that 31st January somehow settles the matter. As was pointed out by expert advice throughout, the 31st Jan date is simply the point at which there is no chance of the UK remaining in the EU institution. From then on, the process of leaving is inevitable and irreversible (well, that is until a sensible progressive future UK government applies to re-join in what one hopes will be less mad times far ahead).

Someone above used Norway as an example of how well a country can thrive outside the EU. Crazy. It's as if all the last 4 years of debate and argument has been for nothing. Norway is the perfect example of a 'vassal state', which is outside the EU in name but which adheres to almost every EU rule without any say over how EU policy is made. If that is a model for how the UK should be in future, the whole nonsense of brexit and the massive economic damage it has already caused, will have been utterly pointless, and of no satisfaction to the brexiteers.

I'm not interested now in trawling over the antagonism of the last few years. Cummins and Johnson have scored a blinder and brilliantly fooled a large chunk of the british public to vote for something that benefits themselves not one bit, but which puts billions into the pockets of a small group of their rich gambling friends.

Meantime we all lose so much freedom and a whole tranche of rights. OK, many brexit voters never knew about or exercised those rights, but they are lost nonetheless and they impact hugely on many lives, including my own.

As several posters on this forum have asked many times in recent years, please could some brexit-supporters publish a concrete coherent list, with evidence, of how leaving the EU will benefit them? It's never been forthcoming...

daveuprite wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:13 pm
As several posters on this forum have asked many times in recent years, please could some brexit-supporters publish a concrete coherent list, with evidence, of how leaving the EU will benefit them? It's never been forthcoming...

One benefit I was hoping for was for all the Bitter real leavers (you know the ones that gave this country the finger and fucked off somewhere better) might finally STFU

I can't believe all the whinging and "holier than Thou" comments still coming in from those that don't like the concept of us "leaving". Lets face it we will probably end up with something like the old 70s free trade common market with us still complying with "E" marks etc, and all that goes with making trade reasonably viable--I've no problem with that at all.. The difference will be that we are not tied to the French/German federal plan and the un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels who are largely self serving career twits with no real interest in anything but their own salaries. Norway a vassal state?? !!--are they really bothered?--they have banked all their oil money and could all retire if they wanted to--get real--WE are a vassal state at the moment, and paying heavily for the federal "dream" of Germany and France--the whole EU needs a good shake up and we've just kick started it--I sincerely hope that we can preserve our national identities but still trade freely--that's the way it WAS ---until the stealth plan was put into effect (war didn't work!). Staying "in" ?--we were never in as we are not part of the "euro", and never will be. There are a few countries in the EU that see it as a meal ticket, and that being in the eurozone enables them to fleece tourists--it won't last.

Well said that man above...i wont taunt those that voted stay just say youve no choice but to join us who voted out in whatever or wherever we end up...

Brussels is one big selfelected gravy train...who no longer serve the interests of the member states...for which they where supposed to..

And i cannit ubderstand expats who chose to leave the uk and seek a betted life then complain bitterly that pensions are erroded and they no longer get health care...tough if you paid into the countrg you chose to live in then youd have something....i know some have whlle heartedly empbraced foreign culture and work hard for their chosen way of life...hats of to them .

catcitrus wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:04 pm I can't believe all the whinging and "holier than Thou" comments still coming in from those that don't like the concept of us "leaving". Lets face it we will probably end up with something like the old 70s free trade common market with us still complying with "E" marks etc, and all that goes with making trade reasonably viable--I've no problem with that at all.. The difference will be that we are not tied to the French/German federal plan and the un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels who are largely self serving career twits with no real interest in anything but their own salaries. Norway a vassal state?? !!--are they really bothered?--they have banked all their oil money and could all retire if they wanted to--get real--WE are a vassal state at the moment, and paying heavily for the federal "dream" of Germany and France--the whole EU needs a good shake up and we've just kick started it--I sincerely hope that we can preserve our national identities but still trade freely--that's the way it WAS ---until the stealth plan was put into effect (war didn't work!). Staying "in" ?--we were never in as we are not part of the "euro", and never will be. There are a few countries in the EU that see it as a meal ticket, and that being in the eurozone enables them to fleece tourists--it won't last.

I didnt want to get embroiled in another vitriolic `debate`, as I find it very upsetting, and can painfully empathise with those genuine `remainers` that were actually `leavers` of our bitter but lovely country .. but the response above, by cat is a classic ..

I too, truly believe that things will turn out even better than we all hoped ..
I think it IS possible to `have the cake and eat it`

Our European friends across the water seem to have genuine respect for us in the UK .. and dont all us bikers and travellers just love visiting abroad? .. I have no doubt that all the problems, many simply fabricated by the EU leadership, will not only be solved amicably, but will actually bring greater benefit to all. For one, there will be greater trade with the USA, China etc which will benefit the EU as well as the UK …….. there just needs to be the will.

Best wishes to those living abroad, and to those of us remaining while agreeing with leaving

Is this post(s) still going

bill_qaz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:09 pm Is this post(s) still going
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The problem is, a wafer thin majority of the electorate four years ago voted for a decade or more of disruption to their own economy and culture. So don't be surprised that others have a problem with that. Brexit ain't going away for a LONG time. You could say "You won, now live with it"!

And to take up another thread on here... Freedom of movement. It may be that the brexiteers never exercised their freedom of movement under EU rules, but some of us did. It was our right and we decided to use it. We moved to another EU country to live and work. Everyone had that right. We used it. But most of us remain UK citizens with UK passports and a strong interest in UK affairs, which in the case of brexit affect us profoundly.

So it's pretty horrible to hear and read the resentment and hatred of those who didn't exercise that right towards those of us who did. And on a so- called 'adventure' forum too. Travel and movement between countries broadens your mind. It's very narrow-minded to resent those of us who took it a bit further than a holiday, and painting us as betraying traitors is just the over-simplistic language of the playground. Try being a bit more open-minded about the choices some people make, even if they are not the course in life you want for yourself. My decision to move to France does not threaten you one bit, but your decision to vote for brexit has burdened me with heaps of paperwork, loss of income and an uncertain future.

daveuprite wrote:

garyboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm

daveuprite wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:04 pm Good Lord! This post just reveals the naivete of brexiteers, and the success of Johnson/Cummins in pulling the wool over your eyes.

Brexit will not 'happen on 31st January. Do you seriously for one moment believe that? Hillarious. Are you that really gullible? Why are you so content to be lied to?

Legally and constitutionally, Brexit is unlikely to 'happen' for about 5-10 years. That is how long it will take to disengage decades of collaboration and cooperation. Brexiteers have been told this umpteen times by those who really know but they chose not to believe it.

The winners will not be those who voted for it, most of whom stand to lose big time. The winners will be the lawyers and consultants, ironically the very people that brexiteers tend to despise.

It doesn't matter that a wafer-thin majority of voters nearly 4 years ago, persuaded by lies and criminal deception, voted to 'leave'. It is still a massive mistake. Mistakes are mistakes. It doesn't matter that they are popular/populist. They remain a mistake.

Hi Dave .. my understanding is that the end of January is planned to be the WAB.. (the withdrawal agreement Bill) .. the date that Boris hopes to have the UK legally leave the EU, or at least, the basis of the agreement on which the UK will legally go it alone.. once the Lords have passed it, of course.

The deal is given, by Boris, until the end of the year to come to trade and legal agreements, etc .. tho many are sceptical of theis short time frame … but it IS possible, given that much of the agreements have already been thrashed out by T May.

Then comes the Transition Period .. is it one or two years? 2 I think? …. and the idea is that during all this time, the UK will take on all the EU laws and deals etc into UK Law.

I don't think anyone thinks that it will be an overnight `cliff edge` … and as you say, I think many of the existing laws, deals, and ways, will be maintained by the UK .. making the departure less traumatic than many people think.

You are conflating a few things Gary, but it doesn't really matter. What is shocking and so sad is how willing so many people were to believe the tory lie that voting for them would 'get brexit done', and the accompanying deception that 31st January somehow settles the matter. As was pointed out by expert advice throughout, the 31st Jan date is simply the point at which there is no chance of the UK remaining in the EU institution. From then on, the process of leaving is inevitable and irreversible (well, that is until a sensible progressive future UK government applies to re-join in what one hopes will be less mad times far ahead).

Someone above used Norway as an example of how well a country can thrive outside the EU. Crazy. It's as if all the last 4 years of debate and argument has been for nothing. Norway is the perfect example of a 'vassal state', which is outside the EU in name but which adheres to almost every EU rule without any say over how EU policy is made. If that is a model for how the UK should be in future, the whole nonsense of brexit and the massive economic damage it has already caused, will have been utterly pointless, and of no satisfaction to the brexiteers.

I'm not interested now in trawling over the antagonism of the last few years. Cummins and Johnson have scored a blinder and brilliantly fooled a large chunk of the british public to vote for something that benefits themselves not one bit, but which puts billions into the pockets of a small group of their rich gambling friends.

Meantime we all lose so much freedom and a whole tranche of rights. OK, many brexit voters never knew about or exercised those rights, but they are lost nonetheless and they impact hugely on many lives, including my own.

As several posters on this forum have asked many times in recent years, please could some brexit-supporters publish a concrete coherent list, with evidence, of how leaving the EU will benefit them? It's never been forthcoming...

Well said and written - it's madness