Covid 19 Coronavirus

[daveuprite]

A couple of days after a major disaster happens the blame game starts, at that point try watching BBC then RT then Sky then Al Jazeera and you will see how the different powers start to influence and turn the facts.

Perhaps it's worth thinking about the extent to which this has or has not increased in recent years? It could be argued that governments, 'the establishment', powerful agencies, businesses and rich individuals have always sought to influence discourse and set the agenda in their own interests. How new is this, really? Almost certainly the MEANS of doing it has changed. It's never been easier to disseminate both factual information and myths, and it's becoming harder to distinguish between them. The internet, 24 hour global news and social media have all enabled that. But from Augustus Caesar to Machiavelli, from the CIA in Vietnam to the KGB, propaganda has been employed as a systematic vital tool in controlling and directing thought for centuries. More recently we have the idea of the Overton Window, which effectively limits public discussion within boundaries of acceptability - and we all fall for it, whether unwittingly or not. The key is to employ 'critical' thought, to question and to test empirically where possible, the claims of those who try to influence us. Sadly the tweet/retweet/share/outrage culture does not lend itself to careful examination and deconstruction of policies.

[Asgard]

A couple of days after a major disaster happens the blame game starts, at that point try watching BBC then RT then Sky then Al Jazeera and you will see how the different powers start to influence and turn the facts.

Have you noticed how RT presenters actually speak like intelligent adults and present stories as if directed to adults in contrast to the BBC and other UK channels who all act like kidults talking to sub-teen children?

Perhaps its just me

[garyboy]

A couple of days after a major disaster happens the blame game starts, at that point try watching BBC then RT then Sky then Al Jazeera and you will see how the different powers start to influence and turn the facts.

Have you noticed how RT presenters actually speak like intelligent adults and present stories as if directed to adults in contrast to the BBC and other UK channels who all act like kidults talking to sub-teen children?

Perhaps its just me

No ... its not just you ... the bbc started doing this a couple of years ago .. there were complaints from us adults, saying we did not like `bye bye` like it was sooty and sweep (us oldies know) and its just got worse and worse ... weather presenter .. a lovely kindly smile and a `bye ` .. fukkin sickening!!!

and `this morning`/`breakfast` .. FFS .. laughing and giggling like sub teens all the way through

and worse ... they pick a small handful of `news items` then bang on about them for 3 days ... ffs ...
and we GOT to pay for this shitttee
... and .. they blank out faces / people upsetting bits .. ffs ... its in the public domain and for adults?//

as you say .. switching to a foreign channel up the age to `adult` ..


ps
`FFS`

[Jak*]

I tend to listen to the news on Radio four and the today programme, partly because I grew up listening to it. They are always accused of being anti the government and they were during the Blair years but I think that is because they ask questions and when the people refuse to answer they press them. To me that is good journalism and the increasing threat of this government effectively nobbling the BBC is worrying. On the BBC news website there is a link to the front pages of all the main newspapers each day which can be quite interesting as it shows the importance or slant that each paper puts on the stories of the day. I am still a fan of the Guardian, as they still have some good writers and engage in good investigative journalism often bringing stories to light that others have missed. Their website is also still free. If I have time I will read the free bits of the FT and Torygraph to try to ge5 a balanced view.
I guess it is a bit chicken and egg. Do you get the news from sources that represent your opinions or are your opinions shaped by the news you consume? It is probably a bit of both depending on the sort of person you are.

[daveuprite]

Nail on head there Jak.

It's been good sport to bash the BBC for many years, and sometimes it deserves the criticism it gets. But it remains one of the few nationally funded yet fundamentally independent examples of broadcasting in the world, and the envy of many who live in regimes where media control is systematic. It's perhaps a measure of how the corporation has walked the tightrope that it gets bashed fairly equally from both the left and the right.

I agree that some of the programming is dumbed down. It can be painful to watch, especially in the context of a news-based show like Breakfast, which is truly awful at times. However think of the current top quality output from Attenborough's team, Brian Cox, drama like 'Life' currently showing, much of the sports coverage, 'Surgeons at the Edge of Life' on BBC2 (amazing), and so many others - all uninterrupted by adverts - and you can surely appreciate the excellence and quality that the BBC still manages to achieve.

One thing's for certain IMO, if certain politicians got their way and the BBC was emasculated or even disbanded, it would be sorely missed and that decision would be regretted for years. Rather like British Rail, Royal Mail and the EU - when well-meaning and valuable institutions have faults the answer is to fix them, not withdraw from them or abolish them.

[Elmer J Fudd]

The problem with the BBC is that it has been and to greater extent still is, an institution of the UK govt and in no way independent. It suffers from a lack of diversity in class, gender and race. It has the hangovers from appointments made by the establishment and aligns itself with the old school / university tie brigade. I also think it keeps that Auntie Beeb feeling going, which is utterly patronising.

It makes some fantastic programmes, especially natural history / wildlife which are second to none worldwide; however drama, comedy, films etc are on the wane.

My issue is that due to the old boys club, it is firmly aligned with the Conservatives and up here over the border (in one of the colonies) with the Unionists. Question time, for example, has been shown to serially give audience admission and air time to the same people over and over again, who , of course, have a particular view...fair and impartial? No. A genuine error? No. A setup? No doubt!

People forget that Channel 4 is a public service broadcaster too, and while not perfect, doesn't suffer from the issues the BBC does.

Its not about hang the rich, but until you break the cycle of the upper management's social and political appointments from a narrow section of society, then it will continue to feed itself from the same pond.

[Jak*]

This makes interesting, and depending on where you live and your point of view, worrying reading. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... fore-covid

[daveuprite]

The problem with the BBC is that it has been and to greater extent still is, an institution of the UK govt and in no way independent. It suffers from a lack of diversity in class, gender and race. It has the hangovers from appointments made by the establishment and aligns itself with the old school / university tie brigade. I also think it keeps that Auntie Beeb feeling going, which is utterly patronising.

It makes some fantastic programmes, especially natural history / wildlife which are second to none worldwide; however drama, comedy, films etc are on the wane.

My issue is that due to the old boys club, it is firmly aligned with the Conservatives and up here over the border (in one of the colonies) with the Unionists. Question time, for example, has been shown to serially give audience admission and air time to the same people over and over again, who , of course, have a particular view...fair and impartial? No. A genuine error? No. A setup? No doubt!

People forget that Channel 4 is a public service broadcaster too, and while not perfect, doesn't suffer from the issues the BBC does.

Its not about hang the rich, but until you break the cycle of the upper management's social and political appointments from a narrow section of society, then it will continue to feed itself from the same pond.

Wow that's a strong viewpoint Elmer. And I can see where you're coming from to an extent. But many tories have long despised the BBC and prefer to think of it as a home for LSE pinkos! So the BBC upsets a lot of people from all sides. The news coverage does have long-standing issues and maybe needs to get back to core values of reportage and news-gathering rather than OP-ed type stuff that's better placed in the papers. I have a particular pet hate of weather forecasters (on all channels actually) who tell us how 'good' or 'bad' the weather is going to be. The weather is the weather - just tell us what's likely to happen without deciding what's nice and what's not, or how to dress... aagghhh!

Question Time has become a victim of the social media antagonism culture and I now find it unwatcheable. The BBC's obsession with balance has skewed its ability to weight contrarian opinion and mainstream opinion. For instance it often thinks that it's being 'balanced' by inviting a climate change denier to debate against a climate change scientist, when the vast majority of evidence does not support anything close to such a 50/50 weighting. They don't invite a flat-earther on every time the subject of the seasons/gravity/the solar system comes up. It's ridiculous. It's called false equivalence.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -too-often

As to Channel 4, yes I watch it quite a lot, especially their 8pm news (french time) which is usually excellent and gets away from the Kuensberg issue. But there again, BBC's Newsnight usually does well too. Neither is watched by all that many people though.

[DavidS]

What are the BBC doing with all our licence fee money this year?
All that virtually guaranteed income, very little new stuff produced so where is it all going?

[Elmer J Fudd]

"But many tories have long despised the BBC and prefer to think of it as a home for LSE pinkos! "

To add fire to that, I suspect the angst that the Tories have is that they believe the BBC is theirs alone and get upset at any minor transgression of the "Old Boy unwritten rules...." this is usually followed by a funding review to keep them in their place...

"I have a particular pet hate of weather forecasters (on all channels actually) who tell us how 'good' or 'bad' the weather is going to be. The weather is the weather - just tell us what's likely to happen without deciding what's nice and what's not, or how to dress... aagghhh!"

I am a bit of a troglodyte when it comes to weather, the forecast is usually wrong so best to poke your nose of the the cave to find out. I don't mind the good / bad thing, riding into Glasgow on a wet Monday morning can never be described as good. To twist this back to the named thread title, maybe we will have Covid forecasts soon. 100's of cases expected in the North, but very few in Cornwall and the Southern counties. Outbreaks may occur in Manchester and York over the weekend due to illegal gatherings, though severity will depend on local police response etc.

"Question Time has become a victim of the social media antagonism culture and I now find it unwatchable. The BBC's obsession with balance has skewed its ability to weight contrarian..."

I'm afraid its the opposite, it has become a medium to put forward a "view" on a subject and is definitely biased on who gets to go on and who gets to speak (some several times) . Balance has long gone. BBC- Biased Broadcasting Corporation.

"As to Channel 4, yes I watch it quite a lot, especially their 8pm news (french time) which is usually excellent and gets away from the Kuensberg issue. But there again, BBC's Newsnight usually does well too. Neither is watched by all that many people though."

Channel 4 is a good service model for the BBC to follow, but will never happen. BBC is too entrenched and too big to turn quickly it would take a long time to correct its path, even if those at the top wanted to, which they don't.