EU. In or out?

[-Ralph-]

I think the ones who quite rightly feel hard done by are the 16-18 year olds who were looking forward to the opportunities that membership of the EU could have given them and never had the option to vote. The vast majority of schools that held referendums apparently voted to remain. I makes you wonder who made the decision that the Scottish young people were old enough to understand the complexities of the independence referendum but the British young people were not able to understand the EU?
Cheers Jak

what about the under 16's then do they not count ? at what point do you draw the line ?

what about the fact that only 38% of those under the age 0f 24 that had the vote turned out, they really cared about it because the vast amount of the kids could never afford to "take advantage" of what the EU has to offer because the average working class kid can really afford to up sticks and go and live and work in the EU.

and a lot of us and it seems the majority do not believe their is an advantage to being in the EU, hence the leave vote (thumbs)

cheers Spud

I went to a student swap university with 50% foreign students. None of them had a penny to thier name, and none spoke decent English when they arrived. Taking advantage of the EU as a young person has nothing to do with money, only the desire and the guts to move outside your comfort zone.

Living costs for a student are generally lower than in the UK. Yes they'll have to borrow and come out 30 grand in debt, but that's the same as going to University in the UK.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

To suggest that studying in Europe can only happen as a member of the EU is incorrect. It's well documented that degree courses are way cheaper in Holland too and despite this UK students still prefer to study within the UK. Is that lower cost really because we are a member of the EU ? Why are living expenses cheaper in other European countries than the UK when the intention of the single market would suggest a more level playing field when it comes to living expenses?

The comfort zone you talk of is mainly related to the English language being their primary language and mostly their only language. Other Europeans enjoy the advantage of wishing to learn English as a second language however bad they are at it when they arrive. That alone makes the UK an attractive place to study because English is a global language they wish to learn as a side-effect of their studies. English is not a language restricted to one country within a single continent either, not to mention the fact we have excellent Universities that offer good degree subjects. European study doesn't offer those advantages for our UK kids, and however you look at it being a member of a political system that bases itself on economic policy should NEVER be the driving force for any childs education.

Not quite sure why you are replying to me with this post, I haven't talked about any of this stuff, nor have I suggested that to study abroad you need to be in the EU. Maybe you have just assumed that for yourself? Maybe you didn't mean to reply to me? I don't know.

If we are going be arseholes and turn into grammar / spelling police, then there is no space between the end of a question and the question mark, there should only be one space between sentences you are not using a typewriter, side effect is not hyphenated, and universities doesn't need a capital letter.

I'd rather not be an arsehole about such trivial things though, it doesn't get much more keyboard warrior than picking that out just to antagonise the other person, and as per the signature Tapatalk puts at the bottom of my posts many of mine are written on a phone, so if you'll agree to leave my spelling and grammar alone I'll leave yours. OK?



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Your response:

"Taking advantage of the EU as a young person has nothing to do with money, only the desire and the guts to move outside your comfort zone."

Is what I was responding to in my response Ralph. Where you clearly HAVE talked about "this stuff". Not an assumption.

It's nice of you to admit you would "rather not be an arsehole about such trivial things". So go on and avoid accuracy at your peril (thumbs)

"To suggest that studying in Europe can only happen as a member of the EU is incorrect."

I didn't suggest that.

I am of the opinion that you are just trying to engage in a keyboard war, deliberately misreading my posts or denying your own, trying to argue which I am not interested in, so I won't be replying to any more of your posts.

It takes two to have an argument so if I just don't reply the argument dies a death.

Argue with yourself or somebody else, safe riding and have a nice life.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[skipper]

last week I was at Cambridge university with my son.Many of the students I spoke with were mostly from non eu countries.

[xtzrick]

A sweeping generalisation and we're kidding ourselves if we think most who voted, regardless of age or even which online forums they post on, have 'enough understanding of politics to vote' on this decision. The people who do are the professional politicians that we voted into parliament to run the country on our behalf yet we, 'the people' believe we know more about running a country than they do. I'm sure the 16-18 year olds (and most under twenty years old) who who feel that their future prospects, opportunities and rights will now be severely diminished and their right to be an EU citizen being taken away from them, won't agree with the assessment that the older voters know best. Just try asking a few and see if you get any response other than outrage.

(thumbs)

Direct democracy does not work.

This is a joke right?

Politicians tell us what they want to do when in power, we vote for who we agree with, if/when we find they lied or the country is in a worse place than it could be, we vote them out.

I like to think most of us realise that power corrupts & politicians need to be kept on a short leash, or is that just some of us leave voters?

As for the young having diminished opportunities after we leave the EU, is the EU border going to become the new "Iron Curtain"?

Rick

What you have just described is Representative Democracy, not Direct Democracy.

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Was responding to Trevs' post & forgot to remove your quote Ralph, sorry

Rick

[misterlaffer]

I think the ones who quite rightly feel hard done by are the 16-18 year olds who were looking forward to the opportunities that membership of the EU could have given them and never had the option to vote. The vast majority of schools that held referendums apparently voted to remain. I makes you wonder who made the decision that the Scottish young people were old enough to understand the complexities of the independence referendum but the British young people were not able to understand the EU?
Cheers Jak

what about the under 16's then do they not count ? at what point do you draw the line ?

what about the fact that only 38% of those under the age 0f 24 that had the vote turned out, they really cared about it because the vast amount of the kids could never afford to "take advantage" of what the EU has to offer because the average working class kid can really afford to up sticks and go and live and work in the EU.

and a lot of us and it seems the majority do not believe their is an advantage to being in the EU, hence the leave vote (thumbs)

cheers Spud

I went to a student swap university with 50% foreign students. None of them had a penny to thier name, and none spoke decent English when they arrived. Taking advantage of the EU as a young person has nothing to do with money, only the desire and the guts to move outside your comfort zone.

Living costs for a student are generally lower than in the UK. Yes they'll have to borrow and come out 30 grand in debt, but that's the same as going to University in the UK.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

To suggest that studying in Europe can only happen as a member of the EU is incorrect. It's well documented that degree courses are way cheaper in Holland too and despite this UK students still prefer to study within the UK. Is that lower cost really because we are a member of the EU ? Why are living expenses cheaper in other European countries than the UK when the intention of the single market would suggest a more level playing field when it comes to living expenses?

The comfort zone you talk of is mainly related to the English language being their primary language and mostly their only language. Other Europeans enjoy the advantage of wishing to learn English as a second language however bad they are at it when they arrive. That alone makes the UK an attractive place to study because English is a global language they wish to learn as a side-effect of their studies. English is not a language restricted to one country within a single continent either, not to mention the fact we have excellent Universities that offer good degree subjects. European study doesn't offer those advantages for our UK kids, and however you look at it being a member of a political system that bases itself on economic policy should NEVER be the driving force for any childs education.

Not quite sure why you are replying to me with this post, I haven't talked about any of this stuff, nor have I suggested that to study abroad you need to be in the EU. Maybe you have just assumed that for yourself? Maybe you didn't mean to reply to me? I don't know.

If we are going be arseholes and turn into grammar / spelling police, then there is no space between the end of a question and the question mark, there should only be one space between sentences you are not using a typewriter, side effect is not hyphenated, and universities doesn't need a capital letter.

I'd rather not be an arsehole about such trivial things though, it doesn't get much more keyboard warrior than picking that out just to antagonise the other person, and as per the signature Tapatalk puts at the bottom of my posts many of mine are written on a phone, so if you'll agree to leave my spelling and grammar alone I'll leave yours. OK?



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Your response:

"Taking advantage of the EU as a young person has nothing to do with money, only the desire and the guts to move outside your comfort zone."

Is what I was responding to in my response Ralph. Where you clearly HAVE talked about "this stuff". Not an assumption.

It's nice of you to admit you would "rather not be an arsehole about such trivial things". So go on and avoid accuracy at your peril (thumbs)

"To suggest that studying in Europe can only happen as a member of the EU is incorrect."

I didn't suggest that.

I am of the opinion that you are just trying to engage in a keyboard war, deliberately misreading my posts or denying your own, trying to argue which I am not interested in, so I won't be replying to any more of your posts.

It takes two to have an argument so if I just don't reply the argument dies a death.

Argue with yourself or somebody else, safe riding and have a nice life.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

I find it odd you post responses to peoples posts, happily comment on them in what I thought was an intelligent conversation and then accuse people of lacking in education and wishing to embark in a 'keyboard war' as you put when someone challenges your point of view, or you simply don't like their response. I suggest you re-read post 522235. I believe my response to that was fair and not a personal attack on you in anyway. Apologies if I have made you feel offended.

[dave448]

last week I was at Cambridge university with my son.Many of the students I spoke with were mostly from non eu countries.

the uni charges much more for non eu. students ..so its a money thing ..this is as well as being a world renown uni so its also a bit of a magnet...have you heard of the sutton trust?
(thumbs) ...

[AndyB]

last week I was at Cambridge university with my son.Many of the students I spoke with were mostly from non eu countries.

the uni charges much more for non eu. students ..so its a money thing ..this is as well as being a world renown uni so its also a bit of a magnet...have you heard of the sutton trust?
(thumbs) ...

I've heard of a Rhodes Scholarship where it's acceptable to take the money to fund your education then complain about where the money came from :pinch:

[dave448]

http://www.suttontrust.com/
complain about where the money came from ... hahah

[Trev]

A sweeping generalisation and we're kidding ourselves if we think most who voted, regardless of age or even which online forums they post on, have 'enough understanding of politics to vote' on this decision. The people who do are the professional politicians that we voted into parliament to run the country on our behalf yet we, 'the people' believe we know more about running a country than they do. I'm sure the 16-18 year olds (and most under twenty years old) who who feel that their future prospects, opportunities and rights will now be severely diminished and their right to be an EU citizen being taken away from them, won't agree with the assessment that the older voters know best. Just try asking a few and see if you get any response other than outrage.

This is a joke right?

Politicians tell us what they want to do when in power, we vote for who we agree with, if/when we find they lied or the country is in a worse place than it could be, we vote them out.

I like to think most of us realise that power corrupts & politicians need to be kept on a short leash, or is that just some of us leave voters?

As for the young having diminished opportunities after we leave the EU, is the EU border going to become the new "Iron Curtain"?

Rick

errr no Rick, not a joke but how our (and most other) democracy works. I realise you may think you can do better or perhaps even are able to do better but unless you actually take the plunge and get involved in governing our country then I'm afraid we can only pick from those that are prepared to take on the task. I of course agree that I would rather not vote for corrupt politicians but I believe that not all are and not everyone is corrupted by power. If we don't like it we can always have a go ourselves but it seems just too much effort and way too boring for most of us (and I include myself in that) so therefore let's leave to those who can be bothered, hope they produce a fairly consistent environment and we can then work out how we want to navigate to suit ourselves. A governments role is to make sure we're safe (as in not been invaded, crime levels acceptable), don't starve if we fall on hard times, health care and education is widely available and the economic and regulatory environment is stable enough for us to decide how to make our own way. Outside of that it's up to us work out how we want to live, work and enjoy life.
I have two brothers, both plumbers, one works all hours has two houses and saving hard to put his kids through uni and then for early retirement, the other has two kids, lives in council subsidised housing, works just enough to make sure he still gets his rent paid, enjoys plenty of time with his two kids and is leaving his retirement and his kids education to the state. Neither right nor wrong, both working under the same system to obtain what they see as their priorities but it's when the system gets thrown widely out of kilter (a recession or leaving EU for example) that then each needs to decide whether they need to change their actions to determine their desired outcome not to bleat about the government not giving them what they want.

[GerJ]

(...) To suggest that studying in Europe can only happen as a member of the EU is incorrect. It's well documented that degree courses are way cheaper in Holland too and despite this UK students still prefer to study within the UK. Is that lower cost really because we are a member of the EU ? Why are living expenses cheaper in other European countries than the UK when the intention of the single market would suggest a more level playing field when it comes to living expenses? (...)

In NL (as in most EU countries) education is state-subsidised. Since foreign EU students come under the same financial regime as NL students, they pay the same fees, which are far below cost price. Non-EU students, however, are not NL subsidised and pay more. For example: at the university where I work, one year's tuition costs an EU-student € 1,951; a non-EU student pays € 7,135. The example is for the Finance & Control bachelor degree study; other studies may be more expensive.

[hansblix]

Borders ... should be no Borders who we keeping out , our fellow humans where was the borders when the imperial British went in to so many countries walked in no Borders .. people want to come to work here improve their lives and want security they don't want handouts immigrants added £20 billion to the economy but the media started reporting that a week before referendum

No Borders .... hmm. Yes, I forgot we were living in the new age with globalisation and all of that. Fellow Humans act differently now in the modern age they are all well meaning do-gooders wanting to improve their life aren't they?

... snap my fingers and you are BACK IN THE ROOM!!

I want to improve my life too mate .. not downgrade it for some nice Humanitarian idea proposed by feed the world millions in the bank Geldof and the likes. If you feel the media betrayed you,change the paper you read.

NO one betrayed me , stop this selfish behaviour one world peacefull for all . Watch the door don't hit ur ass on de way out !