SARN HELEN again
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PaulinBont
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Re: SARN HELEN again
Don't kid yourself Sarge, that 3rd ewe on the right.... after the stream crossing..? The one wearing an aerial on it's head with an evil glint.... Beware!The Sarge wrote:Steve, this Dyfed- Powys Polce were talking about not MI5, Sheep rustling, not wearing a tie in Chapel on Sunday's is about their limit !!!!SteveR wrote:Ahhh, but did the Stealth-Cam catch you.....? :whistle:The Sarge wrote:Rode it again today ........brilliant sunshine ( although icy in parts) and no one about !!!!!!!!!
Sarge
Sarge
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Thumpervibes
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Re: SARN HELEN again
Hi all,
this seemed like the best threat to post in. Im new to green laning but wanted to ask what's the current status of Sarn Helen? The section from the B4242 and ends over by Banwen. There are no "No Entry" or "No motor vehichle" signs on it. The only signs are the ones showing what months of the year you cant go up. It also shows as a BOAT track on my OS map which is a few years old. Has anything changed?
Cheers
this seemed like the best threat to post in. Im new to green laning but wanted to ask what's the current status of Sarn Helen? The section from the B4242 and ends over by Banwen. There are no "No Entry" or "No motor vehichle" signs on it. The only signs are the ones showing what months of the year you cant go up. It also shows as a BOAT track on my OS map which is a few years old. Has anything changed?
Cheers
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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: SARN HELEN again
Hello and welcome
I moved away from the areas some years ago, but it sounds like you are talking about what is locally known as "Lower Sarn".
Basically, the TRO signs give you authority to ride a legal motorcycle within the terms of the TRO. If you are forbidden from riding within certain dates, it therefore follows that you have authority to ride outside of those dates (word of warning...don't be tempted to stray from the route, the local land owning company is very precious about this).
"Upper Sarn" is different, and much more complicated. It was a dual-status route (shown both an unclassified road on the list of streets and a road used as public path on the definitive map and statement), and the law, in a strange case of faulty logic, states that the lower status prevails unless majority use by motor vehicles can be proved. Roads used as public paths became restricted byways, and were closed to traffic except for land access. The Trail Riders Fellowship for many years robustly maintained that Upper Sarn had vehicular rights retained on the basis that the majority of use had always been vehicular (the pedestrian bridge, for example, was only of recent construction and the ford was impassable on foot unless you had waders). An attempt to prosecute some TRF members for riding the route was dropped on these grounds, and I and others regularly used the route subsequently. A senior TRF member told the police that he would ride the route starting at a certain date and time, and if they wanted to stop him and attempt a prosecution then he'd be delighted to take them on. They declined his invitation. I even obtained confirmation from the police and my Welsh Assembly member that the 'No Vehicles' signs erected by the National Park Authority on the route had no legal force and in themselves were an illegal obstruction. In fact, the signs as they stood, made it an offence for the local farmer to drive to his farm and for the BNP 'rangers' as they grandly style themselves to drive their expensive 4x4 hybrid cars on the route. I still hold some of this correspondence. The farmer had no objection to us using the route. We would ride slowly through the farmyard and always get a cheerful wave.
Then the directors of the TRF changed their advice, for reasons that were never made clear to me in spite of all the work I had done fighting the case with the police and Welsh politicians, some of whom I had got 'on side'.
I'm no longer a member of the TRF and don't live in Wales, so can't help you further as to their reasoning. But if you join the TRF and send the directors an email they may explain it to you. Good luck with that.
I moved away from the areas some years ago, but it sounds like you are talking about what is locally known as "Lower Sarn".
Basically, the TRO signs give you authority to ride a legal motorcycle within the terms of the TRO. If you are forbidden from riding within certain dates, it therefore follows that you have authority to ride outside of those dates (word of warning...don't be tempted to stray from the route, the local land owning company is very precious about this).
"Upper Sarn" is different, and much more complicated. It was a dual-status route (shown both an unclassified road on the list of streets and a road used as public path on the definitive map and statement), and the law, in a strange case of faulty logic, states that the lower status prevails unless majority use by motor vehicles can be proved. Roads used as public paths became restricted byways, and were closed to traffic except for land access. The Trail Riders Fellowship for many years robustly maintained that Upper Sarn had vehicular rights retained on the basis that the majority of use had always been vehicular (the pedestrian bridge, for example, was only of recent construction and the ford was impassable on foot unless you had waders). An attempt to prosecute some TRF members for riding the route was dropped on these grounds, and I and others regularly used the route subsequently. A senior TRF member told the police that he would ride the route starting at a certain date and time, and if they wanted to stop him and attempt a prosecution then he'd be delighted to take them on. They declined his invitation. I even obtained confirmation from the police and my Welsh Assembly member that the 'No Vehicles' signs erected by the National Park Authority on the route had no legal force and in themselves were an illegal obstruction. In fact, the signs as they stood, made it an offence for the local farmer to drive to his farm and for the BNP 'rangers' as they grandly style themselves to drive their expensive 4x4 hybrid cars on the route. I still hold some of this correspondence. The farmer had no objection to us using the route. We would ride slowly through the farmyard and always get a cheerful wave.
Then the directors of the TRF changed their advice, for reasons that were never made clear to me in spite of all the work I had done fighting the case with the police and Welsh politicians, some of whom I had got 'on side'.
I'm no longer a member of the TRF and don't live in Wales, so can't help you further as to their reasoning. But if you join the TRF and send the directors an email they may explain it to you. Good luck with that.
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PaulinBont
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Re: SARN HELEN again
The seasonal TRO runs until June ( from June 6th from memory but I'm not certain- when I'm passing next I will confirm) and begins again in September (ish).
As Richard says, avoid going off-piste within Walter's Arena to avoid unwanted hassle.
At the northern end of Lower Sarn is a community-run cafe in Banwen; please use it, it not only supports the local community but, are very supportive in respect of keeping Sarn Helen open.
As Richard says, avoid going off-piste within Walter's Arena to avoid unwanted hassle.
At the northern end of Lower Sarn is a community-run cafe in Banwen; please use it, it not only supports the local community but, are very supportive in respect of keeping Sarn Helen open.
