How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

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Misti
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Re: How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

Post by Misti »

bikenav wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:21 pm observation= road position, scanning close far right and left, peripheral vision if you can do it. Anticipation hazard awareness, static and mobile. When I think about all the things my worn out little brain is trying to compute going round a bend on a wet leaf covered road on knobbly tyres, I think perhaps I should be at home watching box sets of Friends or something, but most of the time I seem to manage the task OK. Staying relaxed and having some experience of knowing that you have handled and can handle again minor errors perhaps helps me. I suppose that is Experience probably not ultimate skill. Interested in where you are going to go with this.
ob·ser·va·tion
noun
noun: observation; plural noun: observations
1.the action or process of observing something or someone carefully or in order to gain information.

So yes, observation is seeing as much of what is happening around you in order to gain information and that information is what is going to help you with anticipation. It's hard to anticipate something if you aren't observing what is going on around you. How does that apply to motorcycle riding? I think it starts with your ovservation/visual skills, whereby you use your eyes to see as much of what is going on around you in order to decide what is safe/dangerous/or possibly coming up next. But it starts with your visual and observation skills. If you don't know that a vehicle is approaching the intersection in front of you with a left turn signal on, then how can you anticipate it turning in front of you, and do the right things to prepare for it?

Next question would probably be around how to improve your observation/visual skills in order to better anticipate what is going to happen while riding. You mentioned that observation is "road position, scanning close far right and left, peripheral vision if you can do it." Are these skills learnable or do they just come from experience? Are there things you can work on/practice in order to improve your observation skills?

I love the comment from Elmer Fudd about taking up clay pigeon shooting in order to help, it's a mixture how to really see an object both in peripheral and central vision. How can/does this apply to motorcycle riding? Cool discussion thanks!!
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Elmer J Fudd
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Re: How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

Post by Elmer J Fudd »

Misti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:18 pm
How can/does this apply to motorcycle riding?
Clay Shooting is a largely subconscious sport, where you react to a target appearing in your vision with a rehearsed method to break the target. The key word is rehearsed, everything has been practiced / trained, so generally the outcome will be the same. You may be presented with a target that is unknown, however the subconscious reaction (see it, read it, track it, break it etc.) allows the target to be shot. Targets will always be first seen in peripheral vision, which is then transferred to central vision and processed. Google search "eye reaction times" they are pronominal.

To overlay that onto bikes, if we see a possible hazard, we will process and deal with that hazard in the way we have rehearsed / dealt with previously, good or bad; so if you tense up, you will continue to do so, if you slam the brakes on etc.

In the same way as you learn to shoot, you learn to ride and use your vision coupled with experience, so break the old cycle and replace with new....then keep practicing.

Also in the same way that a shooter transfers their thoughts subconsciously from the target to the point where the shot will be taken (generally in front of the target), a rider can subconsciously move their focus from Target Fixation to the escape route / avoidance / jump off or whatever the best solution is at the time. If you process this in your conscious mind, you will probably have crashed / had a near miss.

Leading up to this is what we call a pre-shot routine, where you get yourself in the correct mental and physical state to take the shot. This is of course exactly what you (should) do before riding your bike too; self coaching how you will position / approach junctions etc.

A coach once used the analogy with a client that he couldn't turn him into a Race Horse, as he was, in fact, a Donkey, however with coaching he could make him a bloody fast Donkey. (No it wasn't me, but it applied nonetheless :lol: )
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Re: How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

Post by Misti »

Elmer J Fudd wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:34 pm
Misti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:18 pm
How can/does this apply to motorcycle riding?
Clay Shooting is a largely subconscious sport, where you react to a target appearing in your vision with a rehearsed method to break the target. The key word is rehearsed, everything has been practiced / trained, so generally the outcome will be the same. You may be presented with a target that is unknown, however the subconscious reaction (see it, read it, track it, break it etc.) allows the target to be shot. Targets will always be first seen in peripheral vision, which is then transferred to central vision and processed. Google search "eye reaction times" they are pronominal.

To overlay that onto bikes, if we see a possible hazard, we will process and deal with that hazard in the way we have rehearsed / dealt with previously, good or bad; so if you tense up, you will continue to do so, if you slam the brakes on etc.

In the same way as you learn to shoot, you learn to ride and use your vision coupled with experience, so break the old cycle and replace with new....then keep practicing.

Also in the same way that a shooter transfers their thoughts subconsciously from the target to the point where the shot will be taken (generally in front of the target), a rider can subconsciously move their focus from Target Fixation to the escape route / avoidance / jump off or whatever the best solution is at the time. If you process this in your conscious mind, you will probably have crashed / had a near miss.

Leading up to this is what we call a pre-shot routine, where you get yourself in the correct mental and physical state to take the shot. This is of course exactly what you (should) do before riding your bike too; self coaching how you will position / approach junctions etc.

A coach once used the analogy with a client that he couldn't turn him into a Race Horse, as he was, in fact, a Donkey, however with coaching he could make him a bloody fast Donkey. (No it wasn't me, but it applied nonetheless :lol: )

This is amazing! one of the best answers to any of my online questions in a long time. Nicely done! :) I love the analogy of clay shooting and how you need to rehearse the method to break the cycle. That is exactly what we teach, repetition of one thing at a time until it becomes second nature and boy is it incredible when you realize how often it works!

I'll never forget taking the California Superbike School as a student way back in 2003. They made me ride the slide bike which has outriggers designed to help prevent a crash. The coach walked me through a careful method of slowly getting me to slide the rear end of the bike while also learning to NOT chop the gas when it did slide. It was difficult at first but with practice I was able to get the hang of it until I was sliding the rear and modulating the throttle pretty good! A year or two later (I was a coach by then with the school) I was chasing a fast student at Laguna Seca and slid the rear HUGE in turn 5. I remember it was almost like slow motion and my practiced method kicked in and I didn't chop the gas, held it steady and rode through the slide to catch my student. I was freaked out but so damn proud of myself because I KNEW exactly what to do and I did it! But it was only because of that rehearsed method that they made me practice over and over.

Very cool discussion, thanks for that!
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Re: How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

Post by catcitrus »

just a passing comment--and its probably been covered before, but the best training I got was when I was 12 or so and riding old Brit bikes in a grass field--you soon get used to controlling a slide and holding it when things are not so quick--everyone should ride offroad before they get near tarmac.
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Re: How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II »

Indeed, see the amount of time the Marquez brothers, Rossi etc spend flat-tracking on little 4-strokes.

Once you've mastered that, you can translate it to a moto GP bike...eventually.
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Re: How to improve your riding...Most important riding skill?

Post by Misti »

catcitrus wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:58 am just a passing comment--and its probably been covered before, but the best training I got was when I was 12 or so and riding old Brit bikes in a grass field--you soon get used to controlling a slide and holding it when things are not so quick--everyone should ride offroad before they get near tarmac.
Great comment, yes I agree. Riding in the dirt and learning to slide the bike and be comfortable with It sliding around is extremely helpful for understanding the bike on tarmac. I'm hoping that all the dirt and trail riding I've done this year will somehow translate to keeping my skills and speed on pavement. This is the first year in over 15 that I didn't get a chance to coach with the California Superibke School (with Covid and travel restrictions and all). It's going to be hard when I finally get back to the school to jump on the bike and chase fast students and ride like a banchee when I haven't ridden in so long!! HA! So, maybe I just need to put some time in on my dirtbike playing around with sliding and going fast?! :)
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