Global Warming?

[Brenhden]

Never trust an 'expert' .. they is sanctimonious twats.

If you want to have a serious discussion I would respectfully recommend avoiding comments like this as they undermine any informed content and cause conflict.

There is plenty of evidence of this on the Covid/Brexit threads.

Cheers

Bren

[daveuprite]

Thanks for the replies; some interesting facts; especially Richards info on CO2 historically.

Oh for crying out loud, Gary - what Richard wrote about historic CO2 is not 'an interesting fact'. It's wrong. It's an untruth. It's incorrect. It was made up by the lobby that wants you to doubt experts in the way that you do. Read the fact check that I linked him to in my reply to him above.

As John Maynard Keynes said, "When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do?"

There's nothing embarrassing or shameful about adapting your view about things to the facts as they emerge or change - it's the sign of a learning mind. You don't have to cling on to rubbish just because you keep seeing it from the usually untrustworthy sources. And yes, given the choice between the advice of a time-served and qualified expert and a novice I take the expert every time - why on earth would anyone do otherwise? You don't get a mate 'who read something somewhere about it' to re-wire your house for god's sake, do you?

That's enough now - it's getting absurd.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

A direct quote from Dave's link

"Geophysical Research Letters in 2014, found CO2 levels during the Jurassic were likely around 1000ppm, or about two and a half times the present level.

University of Wollongong paleoclimatologist Helen McGregor said CO2 levels were about 2000ppm during the Jurassic Period, when temperatures were about five degrees warmer than today."


So that confirms that CO2 was far higher then than now, although the exact figure is unclear as it's actually very difficult to measure the tiny amount of CO2 in the atmosphere accurately. Especially when, as now, you take your samples from the slopes of the world's larges (and increasingly active) surface volcano.

I'd contend that what we are seeing now is just normal interglacial warming. It happens every 100,000 years. And atmospheric CO2 fluctuates without human intervention as proven by Dave's link.

UK tomato-growers raise the CO2 levels in their glasshouses to Jurassic levels to boost yields while reducing fertiliser use. The bees, which pollinate the plants, don't seem to mind. And they don't even have lungs, so can't pant to make up an oxygen defficiency.

Even the graphs in 'An Inconvenient Truth' showed that CO2 rises followed temp rises, while Al Gore maintained that the opposite was happening.

There are far worse environmental worries than CO2...I'd say deforestation, and accumulations of plastics and pesticides are far more of a threat.

And more humans die of cold than heat.

[daveuprite]

It's a bizarre and increasingly lonely furrow you're ploughing there Richard. You clearly have not read the link, you've just cherry picked what you want to be true (why I really don't know if you are not in the pay of the vested interests).

This is you versus basic physics. Surely you're not so arrogant as to believe yourself to know better than the world's physicists?

You should at least be collecting royalties for your work from Exxon and Shell. They're more than happy to pay for this kind of misinformation.

I can disprove what you've said today in this thread time and time again, citing hundreds and hundreds of sources - but I haven't got the time, you clearly wouldn't read any of it, and the whole exercise would be pointless. At least I know when to give in to intransigence.

I'm off to pick some veg....

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Actually, I'm doing very nicely out of writing decarbonisation reports etc...

But it's not up to me how clients choose to spend their cash!

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Kate's just in from the polytunnel...our veg is struggling...not enough sunlight...nothing to pick.

Yesterday morning, I saw 14 swallows gathering on the wire to fly back to Africa...they've clearly written this cold, miserable summer off.

[daveuprite]

Kate's just in from the polytunnel...our veg is struggling...not enough sunlight...nothing to pick.

Yesterday morning, I saw 14 swallows gathering on the wire to fly back to Africa...they've clearly written this cold, miserable summer off.

So you write decarbonisation reports and yet you don't know the difference between weather and climate. Bit worrying...

[garyboy]

Richard, keep living a life of rural natural simplicity, no doubt with non poluting eco friendly bio diversity and efficient self sufficiency etc .. and just ignore the intolerant scoffing forriners lol who can only follow main stream thinking .. in an abusive manner

[garyboy]

.. and can't seem to think for themselves or observe what is historically in front of their closed eyes, but must refer to publications by fear mongers and interested parties

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Kate's just in from the polytunnel...our veg is struggling...not enough sunlight...nothing to pick.

Yesterday morning, I saw 14 swallows gathering on the wire to fly back to Africa...they've clearly written this cold, miserable summer off.

So you write decarbonisation reports and yet you don't know the difference between weather and climate. Bit worrying...

I'm happy to write about (and understand) alternative fuels and drivelines etc, I just don't think they will make much/any difference to the fate of the earth. Climate is a complex, chaotic system. Everyone is currently worried about high temperatures so that's what gets the coverage, the first snowfalls in much of Brazil recorded since the early 1950s have gone pretty much unreported. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, I recall our school teachers telling us about the next ice age, which was what was being worried about then.

A friend of mine runs a transport company. He is constantly being asked by one of his clients, which makes luxury cosmetics, how he can reduce their transport 'carbon footprint'.
The problem he has is that every litre of diesel his trucks burn produces 2.639 kg of CO2. That's just basic chemistry, and there's nothing that can be done about it (he already uses the latest Euro VI trucks which produce minimal toxic pollution).
In exasperation he actually said; "If you are that worried about it, why don't you just reduce your own carbon footprint to zero by shutting down?"

And there's the thing. We can go to 'net zero CO2'...but we will also go to net zero a lot of other things, like jobs, medical treatment, housing etc first. Seems like a big risk to me.

Then there's the greenwashing. Here in the UK we are importing felled temperate rain forest from North America...trucked across the States, shipped over the Atlantic in oil-burning bulk-carriers, and transported by diesel train from the Lincolnshire coast to the Drax power station where it is burned as 'renewable fuel'. The joke is that even if we ignore the carbon footprint of the transport operations (and we do), we still produce more CO2 per kW of electricity burning this than we would if we burned the local coal that is all around Drax.
On the other side of the world in New Zealand, virtue-signalling Jessica has banned coal mining. NZ now imports the bulk of its coal from Indonesia for power generation: which is mined in horrendous conditions: forests clearfelled, and workers exploited. This is some of the worst coal in the world when it comes to air pollution, too. And, again, the carbon output of shipping it is not counted.
I do wonder whether the Earth can stand much more of this zero-carbon stuff?