Covid 19 Coronavirus

[daveuprite]

I'm sure there will be those who say 'How dare you make fun of Trump's illness?'

But just think back a bit, Not that far actually. This man-child has refused on multiple occasions to show any real sympathy, empathy or concern for the 206,000 people who have died of Covid in the USA, preferring instead to make the virus a part of his culture war. He thereby insulted the millions of relatives involved and brought disrepute on his own office. He initially denied the virus, then compared it to mild flu, then said it would disappear like a miracle by Easter, then told people that bleach would cure it, or hydrochloroquin, or some mystery 'light from the inside'! When it took hold in America he abdicated all responsibility for managing it and let it run rampant through the vulnerable of his country, all the time using it politically as a tool to blame democrat governors - even though it eventually ripped through his own loyalist republican heartlands too. Funnily enough the virus has no political allegiances. He decided to support an anti-mask-covid-hoax conspiracy theory rump of hick ignorance rather than explain the disease properly and take the helm of fighting it, as his role would normally demand. He blamed China for an epidemic that could have started in any number of places, to deflect from his own inadequacy and incompetence in defending the U.S from it. He then convened rallies and meetings during an epidemic, indoors without masks, encouraging attendees to reject the obvious safety measures - and made that very rejection a part of his campaign.

So when he now sits in hospital, covid +ve, I think yes - you can spend some time in the shoes of those you gave not a toss about. You can experience some of the fear of those who had to say goodbye to their loved ones before they were intubated and never recovered. The same people you treated as acceptable collateral damage while you 'defended' that the death figure could have been so much higher, even though at least half of them died avoidably on your watch due to your negligence, inaction and lack of care.

Is this retribution, or schadenfreude? Some people mistakenly call it Karma, not understanding what that really means.

Not sure. But let's take an example from my own life that other might relate to. I spent 35 years smoking fags before I gave up. I paid a lot of money to Altria/PhillipMorris for my Benson & Hedges habit and I'm not at all proud of it. However I enjoyed the hit from a lot of fags, enjoyed the drug habit I was involved in, and I accepted the risk involved. If I get diagnosed with lung cancer tomorrow, I will fully accept that it was my choice and my decisions that led to it. If this happens I will not seek sympathy. I will accept that my own rejection of scientific evidence and preference for my tobacco habit led to my health predicament.

Where does this leave the likes of Trump and his followers?

[garyboy]

I wonder if Trump will die?
I wonder if the woman in my block of flats that's walking around and shopping with Positive coronavirus will die?
Believe ye in karma.!!
Lets just wait and see?

[garyboy]

only sweden, that i know of, has the right approach .. but even they killed off loads of care home residents.

This is the right approach, but only IF the vulnerable are really really protected.

keep the working age people working etc and all as normal .. but Protect the elderly and vulnerable

[daveuprite]

only sweden, that i know of, has the right approach .. but even they killed off loads of care home residents.

This is the right approach, but only IF the vulnerable are really really protected.

keep the working age people working etc and all as normal .. but Protect the elderly and vulnerable

That herd immunity concept only works if you can 100% accurately identify precisely who is vulnerable to the disease, and if you can 100% protect them from contact with it. Neither can be guaranteed in practice, as Sweden proves. Herd immunity only works in the presence of an effective vaccine and a very high take up. It also requires compliance and adhesion to rules with a huge dose of common sense. The british public is demonstrating regularly that it won't do that. The politicians can't bring themselves to admit this. They think of it as career suicide to say it, so they keep on expressing their 'faith in the public' to be level-headed and sensible while all around them, in bars and on beaches, they are disproved by actual behaviour. It's not a few bad apples, and it's not just one age group. It's widespread. While this is the case, and in the absence of a vaccine, the only effective way to reduce spread is the crude lockdown mechanism, heavily policed. But that kicks the economy in the teeth of course. Everyone needs to ask themselves, at the most basic level of their morality, what they really want to happen with this virus and how committed they really can be to police themselves. In the current mindset CV19 will be constantly allowed opportunities to spread, to prosper, and to kill people.

[garyboy]

what I am saying is .. make only `self lockdowns` of people who are vulnerable for whatever reason, spend the billions (wasted so far), on effective protection for them/us. .. the rest to enter `voluntary suicide` deals and to continue their work/shenanigans/partying/philandering/travel/holidays etc etc etc as per old normal.

those who have no choice but to continue working / the disbelievers / the lawless / the `invulnerable` / those who can do what they want / above the law / don't-carers / etc etc etc ... then all those, can continue as before .......... bearing in mind that the killing percentage of covid is = 0.1 % ... and that these `superior` people are probably the strongest ... so the death rate of these would probably be more like ... 0.001% ?


the rest of us would be properly protected from what we would see as the `lucky many` and the `strong humans`. .. with care homes taken out of private hands, properly run, and also a huge increase in home carers and visit makers, following the science and the rules.

the voluntary workers and shirkers who continue as normal .. would be doing it voluntarily .... as would the self isolators ... so no policing would be needed. generally.

this would be much cheaper than mr sunack throwing billions at already herd-immune people, and making most jobs unviable and so destroying the economy, etc ,, and instead actually creating jobs as carers/policers/protectors of the vulnerable .. to make up for those jobs otherwise lost.

those who lose their lives through working/ignoring and catching the virus? .. well, they knew the score .. and there would actually be few of them, anyway.

the whole system would be voluntary and not need policing

no need for `track and trace` either.

[Asgard]

If Trump survives there will be an a flood of self serving tweets documenting how great he is and how after his defeating of the hoax china virus he is back to save the world and make America great again...it will be cringeworthy stuff and his voting base will go nuts.
Alternatively if he dies he will become a Martyr and again his base will go nuts (Ok I know...they are allready nuts so lets say full on bat shit crazy)

No good will come of it either way, but I hope he makes it through as I still have a tiny hope that the Majority of the American public have enough nous to see through him and not accept his attempts to defraud them and their version of 'democracy'
Better he he is gotten rid of by the people than by the virus, so in this case though it sticks in the throat I wish him all the best.

[DavidS]

Pointing at no-one in particular, There should be a ban on hindsight comments, even with a disclaimer at the beginning.

Every country started this in reactive mode so had to hope for the best with their way of dealing with it. UK, Sweden, France and Spain, in particular, haven’t come out smelling of roses despite what seems to be totally different approaches.

Hindsight comment - predicting the public attitude must have been difficult and it’s sad that this country has so many morons.

The yoof coming down with it may well have a better survival rate but they seem to be spreading it around rapidly and without giving a toss fir the consequences. If they want to catch, fine, but the difficulty comes when they pass it on to the more vulnerable. How long are they expected to shut themselves away? 4 months, 6 months, a year, 2 years.....?

You would think that countries on second waves or getting it late would be better armed to deal with it.

[garyboy]

if that is directed at me ... i proposed this plan, in outline, many months ago ... i think i even have a peice about just that on this forum .... so it is not hindsight .. it is just simple common sense



also .. the truly vulnerable are Already shut away .. for ever .... ever been to a care home???

as for the government .. they are paid to know and plan .. they had weeks of warning from observing other countries

and as for banning `free speech` .. great idea !!

[garyboy]

If Trump survives there will be an a flood of self serving tweets documenting how great he is and how after his defeating of the hoax china virus he is back to save the world and make America great again...it will be cringeworthy stuff and his voting base will go nuts.
Alternatively if he dies he will become a Martyr and again his base will go nuts (Ok I know...they are allready nuts so lets say full on bat shit crazy)

No good will come of it either way, but I hope he makes it through as I still have a tiny hope that the Majority of the American public have enough nous to see through him and not accept his attempts to defraud them and their version of 'democracy'
Better he he is gotten rid of by the people than by the virus, so in this case though it sticks in the throat I wish him all the best.

I agree ... but some people should suffer rather than have a quick martyr's death

[DavidS]

if that is directed at me ... i proposed this plan, in outline, many months ago ... i think i even have a peice about just that on this forum .... so it is not hindsight .. it is just simple common sense



also .. the truly vulnerable are Already shut away .. for ever .... ever been to a care home???

as for the government .. they are paid to know and plan .. they had weeks of warning from observing other countries

and as for banning `free speech` .. great idea !!

Not at all. We have all been guilty of hindsight expertise, including our much loved media.
Despite early warnings, there wasn’t really enough time to generate a long term plan.

I still don’t understand how countries like Italy and Greece, with their relaxed attitude to obeying rules, came away with so few deaths (allegedly).