Covid 19 Coronavirus

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Redmurty
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Redmurty » Sat May 09, 2020 10:08 am

Jak* wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:59 am
Hi Spud,
I would agree that in theory being poor does not make you poorly, however the statistics certainly prove that poor people in this country die younger and spend more of their lives in states of ill health. Some of that you could put down to ‘lifestyle choices’ such as smoking etc. In this country a lot is linked to where you live. Poorer people tend to live in inner cities which are heavily polluted, they also quite often live in overcrowded and substandard accommodation. There is nothing new about the links between poverty and ill health. PE, or physical training as it was then, was introduced into state schools at the time of the Boer War, because so many of the recruits were in such poor physical state. If you look at records from the Victorian era, when they have measured the heights of bodies, the poor on average are significantly shorter than the rich. In this country junk food tends to either be cheaper or easier to cook quickly. At the time I was poorest I made the decIsion to stop eating meat as it saved me money. Education has a huge part to play as the poor tend to have lower standards of education than the rich. As a country the divide in the UK between rich and poor is far greater than many of our neighbours and has increased significantly in the last ten years. The reduction of social housing and the abolition of the fair rent scheme have contributed to this.
‘Austerity’, whatever the original definition of the word, has come in this country to mean the deliberate and systematic re-education in public services. This was a choice by the Tories, they could have chosen to raise taxes, they could have chosen to close loop holes like our off shore tax havens (one of the main reasons so many millionaires supported Brexit, they were worried that EU legislation would close these). We are supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world yet our public services are in a dire state. When I meet people from other countries or expats who have been away for a while they are genuinely shocked at the state the UK is in.
As for Africa I hope the WHO and the many charities working out there have got it wrong, but I expect you are right ‘St Bob’ and other millionaire rock stars will soon be asking us to donate money to buy some dreary tune. Incidentally I always look back on Live Aid with fond memories as I was at the Kent show at the time throughly enjoying myself and was convinced to join MAG that day, which led to a lot of friends and fun in the following years.
Whilst you and I may never agree about certain issues, in the absence of being able to go to a real pub it is great to have the opportunity to have these debates here.
Thanks Jak

Raising taxes is a very interesting point, I hear people hark on about the NHS and I reply to them pay more taxes they don't want to know. Before taxes are raised perhaps there should be a top down re organisation of the whole of the public sector, which in all sectors I worked in was very inefficient. I also believe the government bashing from the NHS and others is politically rather than practical.

Poverty and life style choices and education, well I rarely ever went to school never fitted in I worked instead and by the age of 15 actually had a private tailor who ran me a line of credit and thought it was really funny, I never missed a payment.

I look around and I believe we live in a good country I am a glass half full guy and I look at my family in general and look at what they have achieved and as a whole we have done well considering the back ground we came from, painful passage for a lot of them but lessons learned and improvements made. If we can they can as a general rule, bear in mind my fathers army pay book states his profession as a "poacher" he was literally dirt poor.

Africa I still can't believe the quoted number it seems rather low to me that's why I questioned it, and begs the point why is it not higher ? and if poverty was a factor crashing the economy will only cause so much more harm in the long run when there will be even less money to fund the NHS

I earned the "Red" part of Redmurty" in the military as my politics was deemed to be communist and my military paper work states so, so your politics and mine may not be that far apart but as I got older I mellowed or learnt that adhering to one doctrine was facile and debt no matter how well intentioned always has to be paid for and always causes more harm that it appears to cure, saw it many time whilst working in a county court and no matter how much time and effort you put into helping some they never ever changed.

People should be helped but not at the expense of future generations who then have to pay for a unsustainable life style that they had no part in, sometimes you just have to cut the cloth accordingly.

sorry my train of thought keeps slippy as I have Utube on watching some off roaders and my hands are sweating think I need to get out on 2 wheels thank god for the ebike

Hope you and yours are well and look forward to our next round of sniping at each other and good to see neither of us has turned rude :roll: ;)

cheers Spud ;)
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dibbs
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by dibbs » Sat May 09, 2020 10:25 am

Redmurty wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:38 am
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ten ... 0e79f3d2b0

cheers Spud ;)
Interesting read. I don't know why but I always feel retired or long working professionals have the wisdom and intelligence not to bullshit us general public, because there's nothing in it for them anymore (financially I mean!) so I feel that they speak with some authority.

Flyfifer
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Flyfifer » Sat May 09, 2020 10:46 am

This seems a pretty rational article to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52578939

IMHO the focus on R is a red herring and was used by Government to make it look like they understood what was happening in lieu of hard data.
Why not simply use the information we see day in and day out and focus on the Rate of Decline of deaths and hospitalisation ???

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garyboy
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by garyboy » Sat May 09, 2020 11:14 am

What amused me was the way governments have announced 'stages' or 'phases' to their 'plans' .. when in reality, they are behind the curve (excuse the pun)

daveuprite
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by daveuprite » Sat May 09, 2020 6:21 pm

Sorry, Gary. Spent the whole day decorating and I just don't have the energy to conduct a long-winded discussion of Descartes and Spinozas' rationalism versus Locke and Hume's empiricism - fascinating though that would obviously be on a Saturday night.

I might even be tempted to go and watch paint dry, which funnily enough I could actually do right now.

So I'll leave you to navel-gaze alone. Enjoy...

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garyboy
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by garyboy » Sat May 09, 2020 8:46 pm

thanks for the reply

best wishes

:lol:

Jak*
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Jak* » Sun May 10, 2020 9:40 am

Hi Spud as you say there are many similarities between us. I hated school and was asked to leave at fifteen and had a relatively well paid weekend and holiday job from the age of 13, ( incidentally something that I feel the younger generation really miss out on, those jobs just do not exist in the volume they used to). However my politics have gone the other way, partly as a result of seeing so much racism in the army, but mostly due to my experiences since.
As with Brexit no matter which way I look at it I cannot see how the majority in this country are better off under Tory rule. I fully understand rich people voting for them, but why people who rely on them, vote for worse public services does not make sense to me. To see the state of our country now is shocking and to try to explain it to visitors from overseas is embarrassing, food banks are now the norm and tripping over the homeless if you are wandering around a city or large town at night is common practice. A friend I meet in my local, who is a passionate Tory, was moaning about the state of the roads in the area and the fact that the local council have closed the majority of public toilets used by walkers and tourists. When I pointed out that was what he had voted for he seemed confused, he is the fortunate position where the others cuts have not directly effected him.
Two years ago I spent about a month visiting my son in hospital everyday and was shocked at how obvious the cuts were, how exhausted the staff looked and the long hours they were working. Whilst I had fewer visits to hospitals during the Blair/Brown years from what I remember it was nowhere near as bad. As for education, whatever else Blair did, he certainly put money into education. The difference between then and now is genuinely shocking..
How we come through this crisis will be interesting, but again it is likely to be those living in rented accommodation on low income jobs who suffer the most. What they do with the homeless who they managed to house in hotels during this period will be interesting, it is a pity they cannot use the many empty houses, shops and offices to provide them with a roof over their heads. I am of course looking forward to the corporation, which I believe Rees Mogg has a large share in, who own the Excel centre waiving any fees for the Nightingale hospital as a gesture of support for the NHS. If that happens we will have to meet up and I will buy you a drink.
Cheers Jak

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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by daveuprite » Sun May 10, 2020 1:28 pm

Latest on tomorrow's lockdown relaxation in France...

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French- ... -transport

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bowber
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by bowber » Sun May 10, 2020 4:10 pm

A few articles popping up now about various doctors having found evidence that the virus was in Europe around Christmas time.
A friend and his family went skiing and had the classic symptoms in January, it makes sense really, these things take time to build up and reach a critical point.

Steve

Flyfifer
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Re: Covid 19 Coronavirus

Post by Flyfifer » Sun May 10, 2020 8:06 pm

I believe I just heard P.M Borris tell the population that once folk in England have cycled home from work they can hop in the car and drive to --- anyplace actually, for recreation.

So when they pop north to Scotland to sit in a park remember they need to tell the Scottish Polis that Boris said they could.

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