Sold a wreck by another ABR..... What to do ???

[Richard Simpson]

If the facts are as you have stated then the vendor has committed a crime under Section 75 of the Road Traffic Act of 1988:

I quote: 75 Vehicles not to be sold in unroadworthy condition or altered so as to be unroadworthy.

(1)Subject to the provisions of this section no person shall supply a motor vehicle or trailer in an unroadworthy condition.

(2)In this section references to supply include—

(a)sell,

(b)offer to sell or supply, and

(c)expose for sale.

(3)For the purposes of subsection (1) above a motor vehicle or trailer is in an unroadworthy condition if—

(a)it is in such a condition that the use of it on a road in that condition would be unlawful by virtue of any provision made by regulations under section 41 of this Act as respects—

(i)brakes, steering gear or tyres, or

(ii)the construction, weight or equipment of vehicles,. . .

F227(iii). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[F228(b)it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger of injury to any person]

(4)Subject to the provisions of this section no person shall alter a motor vehicle or trailer so as to render its condition such that the use of it on a road in that condition

[F229(a)]would be unlawful by virtue of any provision made as respects the construction, weight or equipment of vehicles by regulations under section 41 [F230or

(b)would involve a danger of injury to any person.]

(5)A person who supplies or alters a motor vehicle or trailer in contravention of this section, or causes or permits it to be so supplied or altered, is guilty of an offence.

(6)A person shall not be convicted of an offence under this section in respect of the supply or alteration of a motor vehicle or trailer if he proves—

(a)that it was supplied or altered, as the case may be, for export from Great Britain, or

(b)that he had reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used, F231. . .

F232(c). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[F233(6A)Paragraph (b) of subsection (6) above shall not apply in relation to a person who, in the course of a trade or business—

(a)exposes a vehicle or trailer for sale, unless he also proves that he took all reasonable steps to ensure that any prospective purchaser would be aware that its use in its current condition on a road in Great Britain would be unlawful, or

(b)offers to sell a vehicle or trailer, unless he also proves that he took all reasonable steps to ensure that the person to whom the offer was made was aware of that fact.]

(7)Nothing in the preceding provisions of this section shall affect the validity of a contract or any rights arising under a contract.


Note the Act specifically states "A Person"....not a company, not a business.

When I sell a vehicle privately, to cover myself I always tell the buyer that I will put a fresh MoT on the vehicle prior to them collecting it. This gives me some defence/mitigation should problems arise.

[Spike941]

SALE & SUPPLY OF ‘UNROADWORTHY’ VEHICLES GUIDANCE NOTES
What does the law say?
Section 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence to sell, supply or offer to sell or supply, or expose for sale an unroadworthy vehicle. It is also an offence to repair/service a vehicle and leave it in an unroadworthy state.
However, an offence may not be committed if the following can be proven,
• The vehicle was for export from Great Britain, or
• There was reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle would not be used on the road or would not be used until it had been put into roadworthy condition.
NB You would need to show that you took all reasonable steps to ensure the buyer was fully aware that the vehicle was unroadworthy and not to be used on the road.
What is meant by the term unroadworthy?
The Road Traffic Act 1988 does not give a definition of what is "unroadworthy", but instead makes reference to the following areas that, if not satisfactory, may lead to a vehicle being unroadworthy: -
• Steering and steering gear
• Brakes and braking systems
• Tyres;
• Exhaust systems;
• Seatbelts and seatbelt anchorages;
• General condition (corrosion, suspension etc).
In short a vehicle may be classed as being unroadworthy if it is in such a condition that its use on the road would endanger the driver, passengers, other road users or pedestrians. There are also regulations, which, set out construction requirements for various components such as brakes, steering, gears, tyres, construction, weight and equipment of the vehicle. If a vehicle fails to meet the requirements it may also be considered unroadworthy.

[ScottT]

The person that sold this bike is probably sat there now reading all this and thinking of how he can worm his way out of it and people are giving him plenty of excuses to use.

I would suggest deleting this post and anyone who can help the original poster to do so by PM.

[ReaperX]

I'm with you on that Scott.
Its good to ask for advice but on this case as its a membre that has accés to this its probably not a good idea.
Good luck Ted. Feel for you.

[sprintster]

Ted it's illegal to sell a vehicle private or trade that's in an unroadworthy condition.

strange claim ..you can sell a vehicle privately in any condition you like.

According to the AA even in a private sale a vehicle must be in a roadworthy condition.It's a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle.(Obviously not talking about vehicles sold as spares or repair).It must also match the seller's description.
www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

[Tonibe63]

Let's forget about the Law, the seller should consider what is morally right ...... it's not the Law that stops me robbing somebody it is morals.
It may have been a genuine mistake and the seller has panicked so let's hope they think again and do the right thing

[*Touring Ted*]

I've bought a replacement frame for it now along with a lot of other things to make it safe.

He has now offered to pay for the frame. That's all I asked for at the beginning. Which is far more charitable than anyone else would be. That resolution being snubbed in the first place is what has infuriated me.

I'm a mechanic so I can replace it in my own time. It's obviously a lot of work and I'll still be out of pocket but it's a resolution I would be happy with to make it all go away.

If he doesn't pay like promised then I will see that as the final insult and indeed take legal action. I will also see no need whatsoever to protect his identity.

But that is the last resort...

Thanks to all for your inputs and opinions. As always, very helpful.. (thumbs)

[g00ner]

Pleased you have come to some sort of a conclusion Ted (thumbs)

Can I add (before the lynch party pack up and go home)it may be that the seller genuinely didn't know the issues?

He said he had no idea
He was sorry
He paid for a replacement frame

I can't be the only bloke on here who has sold a perfectly good bike only to be contacted by the buyer after a period to claim a major fault unidentified at point of sale demanding a major cash contribution? (In my case when I offered to replace the item - a recently purchased excel front wheel - pending an inspection I heard nothing more from him.)
Maybe the guy was being careful or maybe I always try to see the good in people (most likely)

Anyway, hope the build goes well for you

[Richard Simpson]

The person that sold this bike is probably sat there now reading all this and thinking of how he can worm his way out of it and people are giving him plenty of excuses to use.

I would suggest deleting this post and anyone who can help the original poster to do so by PM.

In fact, the advice given by myself and others that was founded in law rather than just being made up made it very clear that the vendor had committed an offence by exposing the vehicle for sale.

[Scott_rider]

It's not nice when people aren't who you think they are. As an aside, in 2015 I sold my 450 EXC-R to a fellow dirt biker who was actually a bike trader and not a dirt biker at all. I felt well shafted when I saw my bike advertised two days later on eBay and for £500 more than he paid me for it. The story he told me about exporting it to France and being an enthusiast for years was a load of bollox