EU. In or out?

[Crossrutted]

I hear there's a convoy of Scottish refrigerated lorries heading for London with their fridges switched off...I wonder what happens next?

They'll cook fresh haggis on the lawns outside Parliament.

(I know, I know, no fish etc)

Anyway the drivers got nicked

[Crossrutted]

My view on the Union is changing with time because I'm so sick of carping Scots. Scotland historically has always attempted to shaft England and allies itself with France.
Good, we'll keep on carping then... Ask yourself why Scotland has sided with France against England, could it be due to the invasions, denial of trade, killing of Queen etc. that England imposed on Scotland, even the treaty of Union was posed as a take it or be placed under siege question?

Elmer, your choice of historical events is selective.

Your forebears have a long and varied record on cross border raiding (when they could stop fighting the adjacent Clan).
Plenty of Scottish invasions of England, getting pretty far south on occasion.

And remember, your James 6th was my James 1st.

(most of it can be forgiven, except the Bloody bagpipes. )

[Elmer J Fudd]

Elmer, your choice of historical events is selective.

Your forebears have a long and varied record on cross border raiding (when they could stop fighting the adjacent Clan).
Plenty of Scottish invasions of England, getting pretty far south on occasion.

And remember, your James 6th was my James 1st.

(most of it can be forgiven, except the Bloody bagpipes. )

I can only paint a picture from where I stand, sounds like it should be attributed to someone famous...maybe I will be some day. Everything in history is selective, ever been to the Tapestry in Bayeux? They have a very different opinion on 1066 to the English.

Closer to home, the border skirmishes were local affairs and had nothing much to do with the actual border, more about sheep, cattle and shagging.

The Stuarts were not a good line, too busy preening themselves than governing properly.

The biggest issue for Scotland over the centuries has been the Clan Chiefs and Nobles who were bought off by various Kings and Queens with promises of land and wealth. None of which ever reached the common man. You can assimilate that to the Tory MPs these days, though luckily there are only a few of them.

Bagpipes sound great for about 30 seconds then the earplugs go in. We still have an army willing to fight and stab any invaders, though over the years the Midgies have forgotten which side they are on and will stab anyone.

[Jak*]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... stry-chaos
Another article highlighting the chaos and perhaps some unforeseen consequences, like the impact on horse riding. It does suggest that a better deal might have been reached, but I do not think that would have been possible with the current government and the press in this country. In any case any deal would still have left us in a worse position than we were.

[Crossrutted]

I can only paint a picture from where I stand, sounds like it should be attributed to someone famous...maybe I will be some day. Everything in history is selective, ever been to the Tapestry in Bayeux? They have a very different opinion on 1066 to the English.

Yep, seen the tapestry in Bayeux. A fantastic object . Some historians think it was embroidered in England by Saxon women.
Anyway the victor always writes the history, which is why there are no battle winning accounts in French or Italian!!

(William the Bastard was a Norman - you wouldn't have lasted long if you had called him French.)

[garyboy]

//ever been to the Tapestry in Bayeux? They have a very different opinion on 1066 to the English.//

how is that? ... what opinion they got ???
surely the pictures speak for themselves? ..

interested to know your opinion

[Elmer J Fudd]

//ever been to the Tapestry in Bayeux? They have a very different opinion on 1066 to the English.//

how is that? ... what opinion they got ???
surely the pictures speak for themselves? ..

interested to know your opinion

In simple terms the French believe that there was an agreement that The English Crown would pass to William (the conqueror) on the death of Edward the Confessor, Harold's cousin or near relation. However the English chose Harold (by committee as no direct successor), thus enraging William and hence the invasion. Harold was a aware of the agreement, but took the crown anyway.

There was another (pissed of) claimant to the crown from Norway who tried to invade but was beaten by Harold, just before William's invasion.

Probably better off googling than relying on my sketchy history.

All very interesting and shows how tumultuous those times were. If the other invasion hadn't taken place, would William have been defeated?

[garyboy]

ah right .. thanks Elmer ... I suppose on this side of the channel (UK) we discount these claims as spurious and unfounded excuses? ... but the french actually believe the victors' account, it seems?

I was trying to chat up a young frnch teacher one day, like you do (I was young then lol) .. she was addamant that Napoleon won the battle of waterloo .. she was taught it in school, she said

[Elmer J Fudd]

ah right .. thanks Elmer ... I suppose on this side of the channel (UK) we discount these claims as spurious and unfounded excuses? ... but the french actually believe the victors' account, it seems?

I was trying to chat up a young frnch teacher one day, like you do (I was young then lol) .. she was addamant that Napoleon won the battle of waterloo .. she was taught it in school, she said

No he didn't win, but then again the Army that defeated Napoleon was multi-national and Wellington's troops played only a part of that along with others, so not a British Victory, but an international one.

I have fond memories of a French Ski Instructress from a trip when I was 17, she taught more than skiing and it didn't involve keeping knees together.....

[Brenhden]

All very interesting and shows how tumultuous those times were. If the other invasion hadn't taken place, would William have been defeated?

Probably, IIRC Harold had to double time his battle weary men from the North to the South to face Wiliam. It was far from ideal.