EU. In or out?

[onslowe]

Scotland and NI may make all the noise about becoming independent to join the EU but only to screw a bit more power / money from the "UK". The EU needs those 2 economies like a hole in the head, wasn't the oil industry in Aberdeen recently bailed out due to a downturn in its profitability. This Brexit is being used as a power play by politicians and an excuse for failing profits by greedy and incompetent CEO's so they can still grab massive a bonus whilst profits hit the deck.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

That may be true for Scotland...but not for NI. The economy of NI is integrated into the economy of the Republic now.

[garyboy]

personally, I am not too bothered, in or out, but I would like to see more control over our own laws, money, trade deals etc
personally I would like to all regions independent of their present countries, but referring to a common head in say Brussels, an EU but of regions .. like catalonia, basque, Spanish main?, wales, ni, scottland, falklands, gib, etc etc etc.
each with their own money system based on the euro, but not exactly,
each with their own sovereignty, laws, trade deals
each allowed to trade anywhere in the world
each contributing centrally to the common good

[HedgeHopper]

Oh blimey...and stuff

What about last night's Leak then eh? ..........incompetance, treachery by Ollie the remainer or what?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... long-delay

[garyboy]

More pressure for the DEAL .. propaganda set up

[garyboy]

Its MY deal or a cliff edge or a never ending can can

[garyboy]

btw .. for those on here that state that recent unrests in France and Spain `have nothing to do with the EU`, here is a reminder from 2012
of Austerity measures,
and how they affect (some) member states

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10162176




more up to date ..

https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article ... 18/4430523


I not read myself as going to clean the bike

but .. conclusion …
there is now a growing consensus that austerity slowed, or in some cases, prevented economic recovery. However, austerity also had important consequences for health and health services. It impacted most on those already vulnerable, such as those with precarious employment or housing, or with existing health problems. It was associated with worsening mental health and, as a consequence, increasing suicides. Yet, this was not inevitable. Those fortunate to live in countries with strong social protection systems, such as Iceland and Germany, escaped the worst of the crisis, compared with those with relatively weaker systems, such as Greece.
Looking ahead, the crisis and resulting austerity have accelerated a move to a new model of the economy, one in which power has shifted away from ordinary people and towards those with the greatest control over resources, a group who have emerged from the crisis relatively unscathed, with wealth more concentrated than ever among those at the very top of the distribution.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Oh blimey...and stuff

What about last night's Leak then eh? ..........incompetance, treachery by Ollie the remainer or what?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... long-delay

To me, he's just stating fact.

It's taken us almost two years to get the 'May deal'.

It will take even longer to get another deal, because we'd need a change of government in the UK and for that government to go back to the EU and offer more 'concessions' (ie money) in return for more access to the ESM and CU. Bear in mind 48% of UK exports are to or through the EU27, but only 8% of the exports of the EU27 are to or through the UK.

A no-deal Brexit will wreck the UK's economy and international standing, and cause some harm to the minority of EU states which do significant business with the UK (Netherlands, Germany, France, Spain) so that's not an option that would be acceptable to anyone.

So, there it is...it's what a slim majority of the British people voted for. You should be very happy: it's what you wanted.

[daveuprite]

btw .. for those on here that state that recent unrests in France and Spain `have nothing to do with the EU`, here is a reminder from 2012
of Austerity measures,
and how they affect (some) member states

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10162176

Why spout on a subject you clearly don't understand? If your argument was strong you would be able to support it with plentiful evidence and facts from independent sources. I am the first to admit that I know nothing at all about advance mathematics and calculus. I'm not ashamed of that because it's a choice I have made not to research it. I could if I wanted to, but I have other things on my plate and it's one of the many subjects I have deliberately neglected in favour of others. However I also hold no particular opinions about calculus because I would not be intellectually equipped to either promote them or defend them. There will be things you are expert at that I would never dream of trying to preach to you about. So I have a choice. Either spend the time and effort getting myself up to speed on advanced maths, or decline to have an opinion about it. The same principle applies with respect to the EU. You can do a 3 year honours degree in the workings of the EU, that's how involved and complex it is. So hopefully you can see that ill-informed opinion and unsupported belief just won't cut it in a serious debate about it.

Austerity policies were a choice, made by individual countries, not an obligation decreed from above. Keynsian economics would actually recommend highly targeted investment during recessions - into core infrastructure/services and into the sectors that a country most needs in times of hardship, rather than wholesale cuts to public services. Germany is often an example of doing this, the UK very notably isn't.

The accusation that the EU controls fiscal policies inside its member states is of course a false one, with the exception of Greece, which became directly linked to the ECB via its bail out, having become a basket case economy due to systemic failures to raise tax revenue. The way that country was treated by the EU was poor (in my personal opinion!), but many Greek politicians now concede that radical restructuring of debt and fiscal policies were vital and necessary, and it is frankly in the nature of indebtedness that your creditor does get to call the shots.

France is somewhere in the middle, with an inefficient but well-funded public sector. However it has got the taxation balance wrong, not because of some kind of dictatorial direction from the EU (there has been no such thing, and can't be), but because of poor internal decisions. That is primarily what has upset the Gilet Jaunes, who feel rightly aggrieved that the spending power of low-paid workers has diminished as a result.

If you don't know how the EU works, please go and do some proper research rather than digging deeper into your echo-chamber of unfounded prejudices. It would really help your credibility in debates and make those who do make an effort to fact-check respect your point of view.

I know you want to believe that every bad decision made by members of the EU should be assigned to the EU, but it's just plain factually wrong to do so. An opinion is not a fact.

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

Just in case anyone still thinks 'no deal' would be a good deal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47225787