EU. In or out?

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daveuprite
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite »

Elmer J Fudd wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:03 pm
daveuprite wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:08 pm I've made 2 mobile phone calls to my mum in dorset since the new year. From here in Limousin.

Before brexit they would have been negligibly cheap on my mobile contract. Just pennies. So small I never even noticed them.

But I just checked the bill on line. The first call was 6 minutes and cost 5 euros. The other call was 8 minutes and cost nearly 7 euros.

I checked with SFR and they attribute it directly to new billing arrangements since the UK left the EU.

When UK holidaymakers are again free to take their break in Spain, Greece or wherever there will be people unwittingly running up huge data roaming bills if they are not very careful.

In what perverted world is any of this beneficial?
I get it, but is this just profiteering on behalf of SFR or have they now got additional costs to cover? A result of Brexit, but not actually Bojo's fault, unless he is charging VAT on Importing voice data.

The Mastercard issue seems (to me) to be profiteering as we have always had to change currencies with transactions.
Very possibly. I don't know. But when you give the likes of mobile phone providers and banks the chance of a new income stream they are pretty likely to exploit it. The only thing that stops capitalism from running amok is regulation. The UK just left that regulation behind.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite »

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by 92kk k100lt 193214 »

Its fascinating to read this thread.

I live in Ireland and vividly remember the pre EEC/EU times that meant paying duty and tax and clearance fees on anything imported from UK, US or any place you care to name.

Eventually harmonisation came about so that inter EU transactions became seamless. It made no difference if your order came from inside your country or another EU country. Many big companies seeking economic efficiency consolidated their entire EU operations into single places like Amsterdam. But if you continued to buy from outside EU then all this duty, VAT, custom clearance fee etc that is new to many UK people still applied and still applies, eg if I buy from US I have these charges exactly as mentioned in this thread. There has been no change in this. The same goes for inter EU mobile roaming, SEPA bank payments, motor vehicle insurance, healthcare etc etc etc. I am in construction and harmonisation of standards made it easy to source product and components in other countries and still meet Building Regulations. This had huge financial benefits for all.

EU has not been victimising anyone here. The exact same rules apply unchanged and there is zero change for us buying from outside EU. Duty, VAT and clearance fee are levied exactly as before. Except, if post Brexit I buy from UK then I am now levied duty, VAT and clearance fees.

But, and this a big but, the UK supplier is supposed to charge me the VAT EXCLUSIVE price for export so that I pay one VAT charge. In our case it's 21% VAT but to balance I do not pay 20% UK VAT so no real difference. I must still pay the duty for UK selling into EU and a clearance fee so that's an increase in costs. UK companies on small scale transactions do not charge us net of VAT, that's an issue for the UK company. But, in the same manner, EU companies selling to UK are also supposed to change to selling to UK nett of VAT. Do they? Not so far. For the millions of small transactions there is zero commercial sense in continuing these transactions at all. I purchase parts from Motorworks or the like pre Brexit they invoice me nett of VAT because I am registered for VAT and inter EU transactions between VAT registered parties do not accrue VAT. This is a cash flow advantage for traders too, they do not have to fund the VAT. Post Brexit, I am not so sure and that is a matter for the UK government and not for EU. That VAT does not go to EU and never did but to the UK exchequer as before, so one can guess its not going to change.

The UK could of course decide to eliminate duty on items imported from EU, that is not happening because that money, also as before, goes direct to HMRC and not the EU, but there remains the VAT and clearance fee issue.

There is another bigger issue. Many non EU products come into EU and are cleared through EU customs etc, not through UK but other countries such as through Amsterdam, Rotterdam etc. Think the giant container ships from US, China etc that are not just cars, but mobile phones, computers, printers, electronic components, toys, clothing, accessories, . To get to the UK these goods must come back out of the EU..........only to face a second tranche of custom charges, documentation, clearance fees etc to get into the UK.

In construction there is much regulation, calibration and certification of components, systems and products to EU standards. In certifying buildings it is a requirement to ascertain that materials and components have the relevant 'Agrement Certificates' etc etc. Nothing at all has changed here. But, unless the calibration company in the UK has EU certification, it can no longer certify anything inside EU. So, lots of these companies have moved operations to inside EU. Cue Volvo buying DAF a long time ago, that's the reason for that acquisition. Same as Nissan, Honda setting up in UK, the move to build cars inside EU eliminated their exposure to the dreaded duty. My 1987 Nissan Bluebird was Japanese built, my 1990 Bluebird came from the UK plant. Most UK insurers, as an example, have set up their EU operations in Dublin. They need to continue to trade inside the EU.

If UK is to continue to sell components to countries inside EU as before the end user must still use components carrying CE mark. No changes here. So the UK companies must manufacture to these standards, no change here either, but no longer have any input into how these standards are developed and amended. There is no victimisation of the UK here, Chinese, US and other non EU companies companies selling into EU must manufacture to EU standards to obtain their CE markings and are doing it for years. For that reason your Honda, Kia or Samsung has a European specification- to meet EU standards. Compulsory ABS, the angle from your eyes to the instrument panel and many more items are regulated.

By comparison Ireland is small compared to the UK. But it is recognised here that the gain for us remaining in EU is far greater than leaving it despite some increases in costs after Brexit, due to the smooth transactions that can exist in our EU trading.

Since Brexit, Brittany Ferries alone for example has gone from a single seasonal weekly sailing [Pont Aven to those who know it] to France to year round sailings, 3 per week, plus 2 sailings weekly to Spain. This increase started immediately after the Brexit vote and they also increased the ship sizes. Stena recently altered a Dublin-Holyhead route to Dublin-Cherbourg- none of the truckers have the time to process documents to get into UK and out again a few hours later. DFDS have opened a daily sailing from Ireland to Dunkerque. Dublin direct to Rotterdam is another route recently opened. None of this surprised us over here, this is freight driven.

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Asgard »

I see the EU is very concerned about its slow vaccine program, the UK rollout (excepting Wales) appears to be doing far better right now.
I expect that situation will change due to our own ineptitude but obviously we would of course be an even worse situation if the UK had not turned down the EU offer last year to order vaccine on the UK’s behalf leaving the EU to control how much the UK got and what was ordered, as we still would have had that delay added to our own mishandling and the situation would be even more dire.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Elmer J Fudd »

Asgard wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:02 am I see the EU is very concerned about its slow vaccine program, the UK rollout (excepting Wales) appears to be doing far better right now.
I expect that situation will change due to our own ineptitude but obviously we would of course be an even worse situation if the UK had not turned down the EU offer last year to order vaccine on the UK’s behalf leaving the EU to control how much the UK got and what was ordered, as we still would have had that delay added to our own mishandling and the situation would be even more dire.
That's a tricky one to call, did we effectively toss a coin on licencing the vaccine and got lucky or are we world leaders? There have been a few reactions to vaccine in Norway which are being investigated, resulting in 33 deaths. I sometimes wonder if we have ALL gone too quick, Polio and Thalidomide are warnings from history.

The situation in the EU is as far as I can tell based on issues with making the vaccine from which we will suffer too and of course their version of being concerned and ours will be from a different standpoint. Then we will have UK extended periods between doses (against expert advice, but the first dose figures will look good for Bobo) and then the EU will overtake us when they keep to the recommended timescales. You won't hear about this because Bobo will have already had his soundbite.

This isn't a Brexit issue, this is everyone scrambling around in the dark trying to get through it, some countries take a measured, long term approach, others including the UK, just bash ahead like we have always done and damn the consequences as long as we are doing something.

I'll still be taking the vaccine, another head or extra arm could prove useful.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... est-abroad

Warning. Do not read this article if you only want to see 'optimistic' news. There are ostrich head burial sites elsewhere with the news you're looking for.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Asgard »

The EU rejects the idea of first come first served and wants vaccine ordered by the UK countries months earlier to be diverted and threatens the UK with retaliatory action if we don't submit to this demand.

Despite the fact that they pussied about and didnt ordr till 3 months after the UK did and even now, have not even not approved its use.


................................ I thought it was Boris who wanted his cake and eat it.

Spin it however you like politically, but fact remains we have a supply in place they don't, not that I expect the usual Great Whinge contingent to accept this in any positive way
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Asgard »

Oh Look the UK can do shit outside the EU!!!!
......and seemingly better and faster... tune in next week for the latest news from the 'Head in the sand' channel


https://www.politico.eu/article/valneva ... -scotland/
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by qcnr »

Brilliant, so Brexit was worth it then. Hurrahhhh.
Just remember to hide your ham sandwiches if you go to the continent. :lol:
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by mark vb »

daveuprite wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:10 pm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... est-abroad

Warning. Do not read this article if you only want to see 'optimistic' news. There are ostrich head burial sites elsewhere with the news you're looking for.
Just remember, all news articles should be taken with a pinch of salt, and the Guardian is no exception. I've no axe to grind, but it was interesting to read the Guardian article you posted a short while ago concerning the new lorry park proposed on the outskirts of Dover - it was factually incorrect in a number of respects and, in my view, sought to sensationalize the matter and paint it in as bad a light as possible. How can I say this?.... well, it's a few miles down the road from me and I'm paying attention to the facts alone, not the rhetoric.
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