EU. In or out?

[Jak*]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -in-france
It is a shame that the likes of Ratcliffe will never be prosecuted for persuading millions of gullible voters that Brexit was a good idea and would benefit the economy.

[garyboy]

sorry .. i have not kept up with the discussion ... but .. an observation i made many times before ..

doesnt this just show what fkn dictators the eu are?
barnier is on record, apparently, saying that his job is to prolong the deal, if any, as long as possible to make uk suffer and make other members be deterred from leaving ...

friends overseas? ... i am beginning to change my mind .. they just seem to be vindictive competitors that want to dominate and extinguish individual country sovereignty ... just like that fkn hitler batrd



btw ... have a nice day ..

[OB1]

barnier is on record, apparently, saying that his job is to prolong the deal, if any, as long as possible to make uk suffer and make other members be deterred from leaving ...

I'd love to see where you sourced that information from?

[daveuprite]

barnier is on record, apparently, saying that his job is to prolong the deal, if any, as long as possible to make uk suffer and make other members be deterred from leaving ...

Full quote and exact primary source please...

[Crossrutted]

We've had several years of debate of this topic on the Forum, often acrimonious and insulting (guilty as charged M'Lud!); and as you would expect in a democracy there were passionate advocates of both views.

However... the Brexiteer crowd seem to have lost their voices.

Considering they have contributed to trashing this country financially and reputationally, I trust their silence is evidence of embarrassment and shame.

[Brenhden]

We've had several years of debate of this topic on the Forum, often acrimonious and insulting (guilty as charged M'Lud!); and as you would expect in a democracy there were passionate advocates of both views.

However... the Brexiteer crowd seem to have lost their voices.

Considering they have contributed to trashing this country financially and reputationally, I trust their silence is evidence of embarrassment and shame.

Ooof!

I think everyone is holding there breath now while our own Brexit Bulldog in Chief, Boris 'Churchill' Johnson goes into the lion's den and gives Johnny foreigner a damn good thrashing...

We've got all the cards in this negociation, well, apart from the Northern Ireland Cards. Gove gave NI away yesterday as far as I can tell.

Hold onto your blue passports guys, it's going to be a rocky ride!

[daveuprite]

I think everyone is holding their breath now

Yeah... to find out if the news is terrible or appalling. As Panait Istrati once said when he visited Stalin's Russia in the 1930s "All right, I can see the broken eggs. Where's this omelette of yours?"

Going back a post or two to what Crossrutted said, it's so hard to know for sure what the consensus of brexiteer opinion is anymore. If there ever really was such a thing. Remember the referendum never stated which version of brexit was being voted on. The reply of 'brexit means brexit' is as meaningless and unhelpful now as it ever was. And also remember there has never been a published plan of what the UK could expect to get from brexit - always a good way of avoiding being held to account by anything concrete.

So when the government was taken over a year ago by the very extreme wing of brexiteer thought (oxymoron?), it had no published plan or playbook to adhere to, and has since basically made it up as it went along, washing up and down the beach with whatever strain of nationalism and xenophobia it could stir up.

Of course the EU doesn't work in that way at all. It doesn't change policy on the hoof. It works to transparent, democratically arrived at bureaucratic rules. Boring and long-winded maybe, but at least everyone knows where they stand. European Single Market, Free Movement Principle etc etc..

So two totally different philosophies are clashing. Which in a 50/50 equal power and influence situation might allow some compromise position. But the UK is the supplicant here. It chose to leave the most successful trading block in the world and it has far far less to offer Europe than it needs from Europe. In those circumstances there is no blackmail weapon, no bargaining chip that it can deploy. If I left this ABR forum right now, why should I expect any right to dictate how it's run in future or expect to deal with it on my terms? I forsake that by leaving. Why is this not self-evident?

[Asgard]

If we want to sell goods to the EU then of course we have to make them to their standards. However we do not have to apply those standards to goods for our own use or for export to other countries that have different standards. So the point is the EU should have no say at all in what our standards are just as it has no say in what standards the Japanese or Canadians apply to goods not for sale in the EU


.....Its not that hard to understand but some seem to want to make it so

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

If we want to sell goods to the EU then of course we have to make them to their standards. However we do not have to apply those standards to goods for our own use or for export to other countries that have different standards. So the point is the EU should have no say at all in what our standards are just as it has no say in what standards the Japanese or Canadians apply to goods not for sale in the EU


.....Its not that hard to understand but some seem to want to make it so

indeed, that's a perfect summary.

But if we want unfettered and frictionless access to the ESM, then we have to make everything to ESM standards. If not, then everything has to be checked. And, more importantly, goods that we don't make but might import from outside the EU for re-export to the EU, have to be checked. However, even as an EU member, the UK could make non-conforming goods for its own consumption. See the CCM Spitfire, which was sold in the UK before it met EU WVTA standards.

https://motorcycleminds.org/2018/08/22/ ... rnational/

I suspect that the deal Japan has done with the EU means Japan is applying EU standards widely anyway.
In my field (heavy trucks) the Euro emissions standards are now pretty much 'whole world' standards, with the exception of North America. Even China and India have taken them up.

[daveuprite]

If we want to sell goods to the EU then of course we have to make them to their standards. However we do not have to apply those standards to goods for our own use or for export to other countries that have different standards. So the point is the EU should have no say at all in what our standards are just as it has no say in what standards the Japanese or Canadians apply to goods not for sale in the EU


.....Its not that hard to understand but some seem to want to make it so

Please read this...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-ag ... -countries