EU. In or out?

[-Ralph-]

Three recent votes.
First won by a lying buffoon. UK.
Second by a reality star who's head seems full of hate. USA.
Third by a professional clown. Italy.

Not sure what to make of it, to be honest.
But I don't think democracy is the winner.

What I don't understand as a lay persosn is how a politician can blatantly lie, be elected (trump) or get the vote he wants (johnson/gove), then recant what he said and he doesn't get prosecuted?

He doesn't get prosecuted because he hasn't broken the law. We need a change in the law. But that would put the very people who make the laws at risk of prosecution, so it'll never happen.

[-Ralph-]

I see that the BBC have reported this morning the Scottish and Welsh Governments have been granted permission to intervene in the case brought by Gina Miller and being appealed today by the Government "to establish matters of important legal and constitutional principle, including the basis on which the Article 50 process might need to be sanctioned by their devolved legislatures."

That's bonkers .

Yeah, that is bonkers. I totally agree that it's a parliamentary matter not a royal pre-reogrative government matter, but it's not a devolved matter and they all have seats in Westminster.

[Redmurty]

It seems that the Austrian voters didn't fancy having a right wing President and though it's essentially a ceremonial role they're still making a pretty loud statement that they don't want their country going too far to the right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38202669

46.7 % of the people who voted, voted for a far right party, a party that was started by a Nazi only 60 years ago. Only 53% voted against the far right. I don't think that was a clear and emphatic call :whistle: I call that a narrow flooky escape personally

I agree it was very close and not a clear call at all. Why can't Breixteers in the UK be honest with themselves and realise that about our referendum?



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

realise what ? that 52% of the voters voted against a system that is not working ? yes it was a close call but I don't hear people screaming in Austria for a recount or a second referendum. Are 46.7 % in Austria screaming this morning in their own way I would say yes, not because they lost but because they have nearly half of all voters backing them

The EU is falling apart and no one wants to admit it, unless there is massive change it will emplode. But no people are saying that Austria was a great result :woohoo: wake the fook up for gods sake

cheers Spud

Realise what? That it wasn't clear and emphatic! That it was as near as dammit 50/50, it was so close that different campaigns, different lies told, different voting rules, better information provided, even a different date, could have produced a different result. By the time we actually leave there will be 2 million had their 18th birthday and another 2 million old folk died. The majority was only 1.6 million.

I'm not calling for a second referendum, I'm just asking for people to be pragmatic and honest about the referendum we did have.

I think everyone realises that if they are honest with themselves, but we seem to want to brush that fact under the carpet.

your right we should all be honest and admit a majority won the vote, and we now need to get down and work together to get the best result there is for the WHOLE of the UK.

cheers Spud

[-Ralph-]

It seems that the Austrian voters didn't fancy having a right wing President and though it's essentially a ceremonial role they're still making a pretty loud statement that they don't want their country going too far to the right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38202669

46.7 % of the people who voted, voted for a far right party, a party that was started by a Nazi only 60 years ago. Only 53% voted against the far right. I don't think that was a clear and emphatic call :whistle: I call that a narrow flooky escape personally

I agree it was very close and not a clear call at all. Why can't Breixteers in the UK be honest with themselves and realise that about our referendum?



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

realise what ? that 52% of the voters voted against a system that is not working ? yes it was a close call but I don't hear people screaming in Austria for a recount or a second referendum. Are 46.7 % in Austria screaming this morning in their own way I would say yes, not because they lost but because they have nearly half of all voters backing them

The EU is falling apart and no one wants to admit it, unless there is massive change it will emplode. But no people are saying that Austria was a great result :woohoo: wake the fook up for gods sake

cheers Spud

Realise what? That it wasn't clear and emphatic! That it was as near as dammit 50/50, it was so close that different campaigns, different lies told, different voting rules, better information provided, even a different date, could have produced a different result. By the time we actually leave there will be 2 million had their 18th birthday and another 2 million old folk died. The majority was only 1.6 million.

I'm not calling for a second referendum, I'm just asking for people to be pragmatic and honest about the referendum we did have.

I think everyone realises that if they are honest with themselves, but we seem to want to brush that fact under the carpet.

your right we should all be honest and admit a majority won the vote, and we now need to get down and work together to get the best result there is for the WHOLE of the UK.

cheers Spud

Who isn't admitting that the majority won the vote?

[Redmurty]

Three recent votes.
First won by a lying buffoon. UK.
Second by a reality star who's head seems full of hate. USA.
Third by a professional clown. Italy.

Not sure what to make of it, to be honest.
But I don't think democracy is the winner.

What I don't understand as a lay persosn is how a politician can blatantly lie, be elected (trump) or get the vote he wants (johnson/gove), then recant what he said and he doesn't get prosecuted?

simple really Mike, he who has the gold makes the rules....

they are not going to pass rules and regs against themselves (thumbs)

cheers Spud

[Redmurty]

It seems that the Austrian voters didn't fancy having a right wing President and though it's essentially a ceremonial role they're still making a pretty loud statement that they don't want their country going too far to the right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38202669

46.7 % of the people who voted, voted for a far right party, a party that was started by a Nazi only 60 years ago. Only 53% voted against the far right. I don't think that was a clear and emphatic call :whistle: I call that a narrow flooky escape personally

I agree it was very close and not a clear call at all. Why can't Breixteers in the UK be honest with themselves and realise that about our referendum?



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

realise what ? that 52% of the voters voted against a system that is not working ? yes it was a close call but I don't hear people screaming in Austria for a recount or a second referendum. Are 46.7 % in Austria screaming this morning in their own way I would say yes, not because they lost but because they have nearly half of all voters backing them

The EU is falling apart and no one wants to admit it, unless there is massive change it will emplode. But no people are saying that Austria was a great result :woohoo: wake the fook up for gods sake

cheers Spud

Realise what? That it wasn't clear and emphatic! That it was as near as dammit 50/50, it was so close that different campaigns, different lies told, different voting rules, better information provided, even a different date, could have produced a different result. By the time we actually leave there will be 2 million had their 18th birthday and another 2 million old folk died. The majority was only 1.6 million.

I'm not calling for a second referendum, I'm just asking for people to be pragmatic and honest about the referendum we did have.

I think everyone realises that if they are honest with themselves, but we seem to want to brush that fact under the carpet.

your right we should all be honest and admit a majority won the vote, and we now need to get down and work together to get the best result there is for the WHOLE of the UK.

cheers Spud

Who isn't admitting that the majority won the vote?

the people who keep complaining about the result,...... simple really a majority is a majority and instead of trying to derail the result how about getting behind it and getting on with it, because after all business does not like uncertainty I keep hearing.

I know what your saying Ralph there is a difference between saying ok you won but I'm going to do by best to ignore the fact and over turn it.

The point Mike is making lets look at that, they all friggin lied and lied their arse's off and no one gets a P45.

Blair lied about the Gulf war and goes on to become a multi millionaire and now is coming back to cause more trouble, did he get punished no.

Italian vote is a back lash from all this Renzi was seen as establishment and he basically did a Cameron

Bankers fail and they walk without a problem nice big pension in place

the establishment looks after it's own, and the right wing backlash comes from that, but will The EU and every other establishment take heed no they will close ranks and feed out their bullshite as usually

as in the headlines this morning Austria emphatically rejects the far right NOW REALLY :pinch:

cheers Spud

[-Ralph-]

I'm not trying to complain about the result, or derail it.

My point is a majority is a majority and the result is the result.

Brexiteers won the referendum and that means the country chose to leave the EU. In Austria the left won the vote with a majority therefore Austria has rejected the far right.

You can't have it both ways and say it's clear and emphatic in one case but not in the other, dependant upon what aligns best with your point of view.

They are both nigh on 50/50, so that's either clear and emphatic for both, or neither.

Your first and last statements in your last post fundamentally contradict each other.

Which way do you want it?

[Redmurty]

I'm not trying to complain about the result, or derail it.

My point is a majority is a majority and the result is the result.

Brexiteers won the referendum and that means the country chose to leave the EU. In Austria the left won the vote with a majority therefore Austria has rejected the far right.

You can't have it both ways and say it's clear and emphatic in one case but not in the other, dependant upon what aligns best with your point of view.

They are both nigh on 50/50, so that's either clear and emphatic for both, or neither.

Your first and last statements in your last post fundamentally contradict each other.

Which way do you want it?

sorry Ralph bit twitchy this morning, feel like I'm the only one in the world that does not realise how close we all are to deep shit.

My point about the Austrian voting was perhaps not put across clearly enough. we should be exceedling worried that so many people voted for such an extreme organisation. Does that not tell anyone that the whole things is unravelling.

I am not complaining that the "Right" didn't win, I'm stunned that they managed to get so many votes :pinch:

Brexit will be written as a foot note as a minor trade negotiation with an admendment that the EU/Britain fiddle whilst Europe burnt

I'm usually a half glass full guy, not feeling the love this morning

right I'm off to my man cave where it's 8c to keep the crap out of my kettle bells

cheers Spud

[simonw]

What I don't understand as a lay persosn is how a politician can blatantly lie, be elected (trump) or get the vote he wants (johnson/gove), then recant what he said and he doesn't get prosecuted?

Because David Davis said it's not possible to be truthful in such matters, and actually it doesn't matter what's said, just whether it's challenged or not.

See http://adventurebikerider.com/forum/9-t ... 210#539684

[misterlaffer]

Three recent votes.
First won by a lying buffoon. UK.
Second by a reality star who's head seems full of hate. USA.
Third by a professional clown. Italy.

Not sure what to make of it, to be honest.
But I don't think democracy is the winner.

What I don't understand as a lay persosn is how a politician can blatantly lie, be elected (trump) or get the vote he wants (johnson/gove), then recant what he said and he doesn't get prosecuted?

He doesn't get prosecuted because he hasn't broken the law. We need a change in the law. But that would put the very people who make the laws at risk of prosecution, so it'll never happen.

Also remember, both sides misinformed, not just the Leave camp. We were told a political 'viewpoint' and not a lie. An example of this for the Remain camp (Cameron) was saying have no fear Turkey would never join the EU. Yet they are edging closer to joining by the day because of their trump card in handling of migrants. Who cares now if Cameron lied or twisted the truth, Turkey joining would be off his watch even if he had stayed in the job. The EU is a great way for politicians to remain unaccountable.