EU. In or out?

[Africa John]

An update to St Al's post :cheer:

[Scott_rider]

Channel 4's assessment of the Richmond election is that Zak Goldsmith lost it rather than the others winning it. They said his poor performance in the London Mayor election switched off voters, and secondly they didn't like losing a conservative MP when he resigned from the party so they wouldn't vote for him as an independent. If the Conservatives had put up a candidate then they would have won. That was Channel 4's assessment.

[AndyB]

Channel 4's assessment of the Richmond election is that Zak Goldsmith lost it rather than the others winning it. They said his poor performance in the London Mayor election switched off voters, and secondly they didn't like losing a conservative MP when he resigned from the party so they wouldn't vote for him as an independent. If the Conservatives had put up a candidate then they would have won. That was Channel 4's assessment.

The other alternative view is the one given by voters interviewed on the news tonight which was that they had two candidates who were against a new runway for Heathrow and one was pro Brexit and the other pro EU. They voted for the one who would argue against a 'hard' Brexit.

Why didn't the Conservatives or UKIP field a candidate? This was an important by election where the big players could make a statement because it was the first contested by election since the referendum and they both bottled it. I can't think of a good reason why they didn't at least field a candidate and instead chose to deny the voters an opportunity to vote for them.

[Crossrutted]

The other alternative view is the one given by voters interviewed on the news tonight which was that they had two candidates who were against a new runway for Heathrow and one was pro Brexit and the other pro EU. They voted for the one who would argue against a 'hard' Brexit.

Why didn't the Conservatives or UKIP field a candidate? This was an important by election where the big players could make a statement because it was the first contested by election since the referendum and they both bottled it. I can't think of a good reason why they didn't at least field a candidate and instead chose to deny the voters an opportunity to vote for them.

The alternative view is that it was just a mid term election, already tainted by local politics (Heathrow, London Mayor)so the government of the day would always attract a protest vote.
This result means absolutely nothing in the real world.

Tim Farron - what a joke - he'll be saying "prepare for power" next!! :S

[AndyB]

The other alternative view is the one given by voters interviewed on the news tonight which was that they had two candidates who were against a new runway for Heathrow and one was pro Brexit and the other pro EU. They voted for the one who would argue against a 'hard' Brexit.

Why didn't the Conservatives or UKIP field a candidate? This was an important by election where the big players could make a statement because it was the first contested by election since the referendum and they both bottled it. I can't think of a good reason why they didn't at least field a candidate and instead chose to deny the voters an opportunity to vote for them.

The alternative view is that it was just a mid term election, already tainted by local politics (Heathrow, London Mayor)so the government of the day would always attract a protest vote.
This result means absolutely nothing in the real world.

Tim Farron - what a joke - he'll be saying "prepare for power" next!! :S

You're right and while I have this awful habit of treating UKIP as a mere distraction I do think that the party in power should at least field a candidate in every by election even if they know full well that mid term elections will work against them.

[Crossrutted]

Did anyone else hear our new MP first struggle, then bolt from a straightforward radio interview?
She is like a lamb to the slaughter..... hmy:

[rlkat]

Did anyone else hear our new MP first struggle, then bolt from a straightforward radio interview?
She is like a lamb to the slaughter..... hmy:

No. I never listen to Lib Dems.

[misterlaffer]

I think it says a lot about UKIP that they didn't put forward a candidate. I could understand them not fielding anyone in the by election to replace Jo Cox because nobody opposed Labour in that one but this was the first by election since the referendum where they could and should have stood. You can't claim to represent the people of the country if you don't even give them the option of voting for you :pinch:

It's no wonder they ended up being led by an Eddy Hitler lookalike who would sooner carry on as an MEP than put himself in the firing line of a by election.

I believe UKIP agreed to not field anyone as it was best felt Goldsmith had a clear run on the Heathrow issue, and Brexit would be of no issue in this bye election. Richmond, is part of London, who as we know voted Remain. Why waste effort and resource trying to talk to the already deaf in a location surrounded by such diverse opinion when there are easier pickings up and down the country.

As a point, Birmingham, has a large Asian population, who are under represented by Brussels. They believe their communities are suffering because of Eastern European immigration. It maybe they see a large proportion coming from none EU countries too but they are powerless to do anything about those because they are considered hypocrites if they protest against them yet when given an opportunity to protest against the EU migrants they did so in great number. Richmond? Now if it had been Slough, or Reading we might see a more informed picture. All the talk about Richmond is nonsense and quite laughable really.

People who believe Brexit and the EU have nothing to do with immigration and coming out of the EU won't change immigration policy need to consider the fact that most of the pro leave camp really don't care too much about all of the philosophical rhetoric, they only care that at last they have managed to stop the ball rolling so far. They have put a halt on something that in their eyes was running away out of control. To deny this, and base any argument against Brexit by simply saying none EU immigrant numbers somehow justifies the need for EU immigration is a failure to recognise those issues of most concern. It's a selfish, arrogant viewpoint. By all means look for a solution that satisfies the majority of the UK, but don't tell them they were wrong, it's not the EU that's at fault, when clearly in their eyes they are given no other option.

The UK government saying we must agree to free movement because the EU say so is not leadership.

[Scott_rider]

If you get a chance, check out today's 'Sunday Politics' show on BBC iplayer (Sunday 4th December).

Andrew Neil gave Nick Clegg a right going over about his views on the EU and a second referendum...complete with video clips of Cleggs previous speeches...I thought he was going to walk off at one point... :laugh:.

[AndyB]

It seems that the Austrian voters didn't fancy having a right wing President and though it's essentially a ceremonial role they're still making a pretty loud statement that they don't want their country going too far to the right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38202669