Is it time to arm our Police ?

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CRAIGREVO
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by CRAIGREVO » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:55 pm

moto al wrote: WELL thank God il live in SCOTLAND. . Ok we have our problems ,thankfully there's very little race problems , also ,the quality of life is very good.and the big bonus is ,it's great place to ride ur Moto ,nae traffic. Utopia,apart from the midges. :pinch:
Its exactly the same in England mate. Unfortunately there is violence and gun crime everywhere and the people that see it most are the people that look for it. (thumbs)

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Throttled
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by Throttled » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:09 pm

CRAIGREVO wrote:......
So maybe additional armed response units are the answer. But I personally think we don't need them. On the basis of what "if" a terrorist with a gun goes on a rampage.
The present terrorist alert status is not what if, it is when.....
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Norrie77
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by Norrie77 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:10 pm

Police officers serving in Northern Ireland are armed for personal protection against terrorist attacks however there are a number of special armed units which would respond to any serious incident involving any type of weapon where upon the local response crews would step back and contain the area concerned and allow these crews to deal with the situation.
As for armed police on the mainland it won't happen unless there is a large reversal of opinion within the rank and file they have been balloted on this matter before with a resounding NO vote.
I only hope and pray the events in Paris aren't repeated in the UK.
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Heff
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by Heff » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:02 pm

I say yes arm the police.

As others from NI have said, all the police here are armed, all the time, 24/7. I don't recall ever seeing the police not being armed. I don't even notice the guns when stopped at one of their routine check points. But then NI is 'unique' within the UK.
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TomBoyNI
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by TomBoyNI » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:45 am

CRAIGREVO wrote:
Old Git Ray wrote:
CRAIGREVO wrote:
If there was a gunman on the street then a fully trained armed response unit would deal with it.
Sorry mate but there are not enough units on duty at any one time to even contemplate a real level of cover.

I worked Hackney/Stoke Newington and Tottenham all my career. I worked the firearms and gangs unit for the last 5 years and trying to get armed police to support or respond was a joke. Not their fault I hasten to add, just the lack of them.

As for your quote above, trust me, from personal experience, it does not work.
So maybe additional armed response units are the answer. But I personally think we don't need them. On the basis of what "if" a terrorist with a gun goes on a rampage.
But it isn't a what if. This stuff is happening daily. Globally.

Wrapping up in a bubble doesn't cut it.

As far as intelligence goes, that's all good. Monitor media / social media / tag on to baddies, listen to their communications all that stuff you see on tv.

How though do you propose intelligence is gained against seven people in a foreign country, planning an attack in the middle of no where. No Comms being made. Just in a room. Just plotting. Now these seven people are unknowns. They hatch a plot and go to the country they want to attack. And do so. How do you combat that?

You can't monitor every communication in every room, field, shack in the world. You couldn't even do it in just one high risk country. So attacks will be planned and they will be successful.

People will scream about how bad the intelligence services are and so on.

We need an option that when the intelligence fails or when there simply was no intelligence available.

We need a backup.
Boo :-p

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Westbarn1
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by Westbarn1 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:55 am

Neither the Government, or the Public, are prepared to pay for effective policing now, let alone the extra expense of recruiting and training officers suitable for providing an armed presence on UK streets. Or for that matter, enough officers suitably trained in intelligence gathering, to identify these terrorists BEFORE they have the opportunity to create death and destruction in our community.
The fact is, our Police have been armed, quite effectively, since the early 80's. And those officers that have put themselves forward for the extra responsibility and risk of carrying a firearm are the cream of the crop and do not receive any extra financial reward for putting themselves in harms way. So its not surprising that the majority of officers do not want to carry a firearm and not all are suitable anyway for the firearms role. At present, suitability for the firearms role is not a considered criteria for officer selection, Obviously, this does not apply to PSNI.
The question is, even if every Officer carried a firearm, would that prevent a terrorist attack in this country and the answer to that is no. As was pointed out in a previous post, the French Police are armed and they also have the CRS and Military units patrolling the streets of Paris, they appear to have provided a swift response to the recent attacks, but there is no way they could have prevented it happening at all. Just as here, the French Intelligences services are simply overwhelmed with the scale of the current IS threat level.

Mawnanian
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by Mawnanian » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:32 am

In spite of the awful events in Paris terrorist attacks are rare, at least when compared to Northern Ireland during the troubles. If the police were armed they would not only carry their guns to a terrorist incident but to all the mundane incidents that they attend day to day.
In another thread people were pointing out the trigger happy nature of American police, generally European police cope with the responsibility better but I'd rather not take the chance. Armed response units know the nature of the incidents they attend and receive specialist training. I'd rather rely on them than give every cop access to a lethal weapon.
Btw I'm surprised Beemer Dood hasn't chimed in on this thread. Maybe he's found another message board to troll?

daytona-supersport
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by daytona-supersport » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:25 am

I'm very sorry to say this but.
I just don't trust the police to be honest nor competent enough for them to be armed.

The situation on the continent is very different with weapons readily available to the public. Just have a look in some of the windows of some of their sporting goods shops, I have seen a wide range of hand guns and automatic weapons. Apparently the French make a very good copy of the AK47.
The UK firearms laws may seem to be oppressive to some, but they do severely restrict the availability of weapons. We already have plenty of specialist and trained firearms units to deal with armed criminals as and when required. Putting more weapons on the streets, no matter who holds them, is just escalating the problem.

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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by g00ner » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:56 pm

daytona-supersport wrote:I'm very sorry to say this but.
I just don't trust the police to be honest nor competent enough for them to be armed.
.
I don't think the police trust the media and certain members of the public not to change their minds after the case with the benefit of hindsight, time and a comfy armchair

nuttynick
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Re: Is it time to arm our Police ?

Post by nuttynick » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:53 pm

Daytona, That's a bit like saying I don't trust postmen! You can't really believe that all coppers are useless or corrupt, surely?

Being armed might not stop an attack, but as the events in Paris showed, a swift armed response saved hundreds of lives.

In the UK you could be waiting an aweful long time for armed police to arrive, and then it might only be handful of officers. What happens if they are outnumbered? Do the rest throw their asps at them while ducking bullets??

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