Dakar 2021 Finished

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bikenav
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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by bikenav » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:55 am

I can not think of anything else that I would consider paid TV for other than this one event. I do not have enough in depth knowledge or know the whole story but if it is common practice from the riders to race for a premium next day start position it kinda spoils it a bit for the casual spectator or was that just a Sunderland tactic perhaps. The little coverage I saw on youtube gave little indication other than what the riders were saying themselves, what about tyre strategy were they all running a tyre for 2 days then changing or was it more complex .Clearly you need a toolbox of multiple skills to win this event, nice to see that there were quite a few riders that have the potential to get up that finish ramp first next year. It appeared to me that the official coverage was heavily biased toward singing the praise of the host country, there was some cracking scenery but for the most part it was either mega fast and or proper dunes, it did'nt look less fast and dangerous which was an aim? I wonder what the verdict will be on the inflatable safety jackets. Did not mention above but well done Kris Meeke a rally car man but biker too, the Irishman turned Frenchy roll on next year. Flawed but still looks like a fantastic event from the outside....... A Dakar Fan.

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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by stramasher » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:13 pm

Nailed my Eurosport Dakar coverage this year....until stage 12! Agh! On Demand only had up to stage 11 (even last night) and my tapings on stage 12 was bloody snooker (ok telly if you want to leave it on and go for a siesta!)

Caught up as much as I could on "Dakar" on you tube. Pretty poor though.

Love the Dakar as folk have said brilliant to get some awesome scenery and riding (and ok, some driving)

Great result for Honda. Not good for KTM but nowhere near the disaster that the Yamaha effort turned out to be. No factory finishes. Blown engines etc. Was it the MOTOGP engineers weekend off work prepping them?

Agree on Saudi again, somewhere I'll choose not to visit but a stunning setting. Who knew? Still hope they take it back to Africa or South America. But money talks.

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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by Toe » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:35 pm

bikenav wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:55 am
I can not think of anything else that I would consider paid TV for other than this one event. I do not have enough in depth knowledge or know the whole story but if it is common practice from the riders to race for a premium next day start position it kinda spoils it a bit for the casual spectator or was that just a Sunderland tactic perhaps. The little coverage I saw on youtube gave little indication other than what the riders were saying themselves, what about tyre strategy were they all running a tyre for 2 days then changing or was it more complex .Clearly you need a toolbox of multiple skills to win this event, nice to see that there were quite a few riders that have the potential to get up that finish ramp first next year. It appeared to me that the official coverage was heavily biased toward singing the praise of the host country, there was some cracking scenery but for the most part it was either mega fast and or proper dunes, it did'nt look less fast and dangerous which was an aim? I wonder what the verdict will be on the inflatable safety jackets. Did not mention above but well done Kris Meeke a rally car man but biker too, the Irishman turned Frenchy roll on next year. Flawed but still looks like a fantastic event from the outside....... A Dakar Fan.
The days start is based on the previous days finish positions. The difficulty in starting first for a day is there are no tracks already laid down to give hints on navigation. It's pure navigation which loses the pilot time for that day giving other pilots an opportunity to get a better time in the General Classification.
As a tactic it's incredibly difficult to try to not finish fastest but also not lose overall time, only got passing riders or riders passing you and whoever appears at a refuelling checkpoint at what time difference.

You've pretty much nailed the tyre strategy. There was some discussion about whether to use a new tyre based on that days terrain but it was generally 1 tyre for 2 days. This was meant to reduce speeds but certainly didn't appear to. I read that the FIM might revert this.
There's been quite a bit of discussion about the overall speed of the event and how it could be reduced. Mostly people agree that "racers will be racers" and will give it their all regardless of tyres, engine cc, etc!

There was a lot singing the praise of the host country. Not to get into a political discussion (as it never ends well :lol: ) but possibly to try and help glaze over the political history (or present?)... not that most of the African or South American nations visited were squeaky clean!

I think the airbag jackets will remain as development will be going into them now. In&Motion is looking for development testers for adventure/rally conditions already!
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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by bikenav » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:04 pm

thanks for the in depth/know reply, I understand the start position dilemma, my sideways query was really- were all the top riders riding by that philosophy or those perhaps more confident of their own navigational skills trying to go fast regardless and win stages and the event, a similar thing used to happen in car rallying where the first 3 cars or so would "clean" the loose gravel off stages leaving the following cars with a faster stage leading to a similar situation. As there are faster riders, I am sure there are better navigators (or those that get a better compromise of effort/ concentration) on nav versus speed. As in many sports especially longer duration ones it is difficult to decipher what is really going on, tactics, strategy, navigation, mechanical sympathy, and speed are all a part of Dakar and it should always be so, watching from the outside I can do little better than guess. Racers will race, racers racing over a more technically difficult terrain will have a slower average speed and perhaps have a similar number of accidents of less severity, but again high speed sections are a part of Dakar and there should always be some of them, perhaps in lower proportions. Long may it continue. safety jackets interesting. Ta again.

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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by Toe » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:32 pm

bikenav wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:04 pm
thanks for the in depth/know reply, I understand the start position dilemma, my sideways query was really- were all the top riders riding by that philosophy or those perhaps more confident of their own navigational skills trying to go fast regardless and win stages and the event, a similar thing used to happen in car rallying where the first 3 cars or so would "clean" the loose gravel off stages leaving the following cars with a faster stage leading to a similar situation. As there are faster riders, I am sure there are better navigators (or those that get a better compromise of effort/ concentration) on nav versus speed. As in many sports especially longer duration ones it is difficult to decipher what is really going on, tactics, strategy, navigation, mechanical sympathy, and speed are all a part of Dakar and it should always be so, watching from the outside I can do little better than guess. Racers will race, racers racing over a more technically difficult terrain will have a slower average speed and perhaps have a similar number of accidents of less severity, but again high speed sections are a part of Dakar and there should always be some of them, perhaps in lower proportions. Long may it continue. safety jackets interesting. Ta again.
As you say, team and individual tactics are impossible to know! I would expect they mostly ride pushing their limit regardless. The margins are generally too slim to actively be conservative. Strategies would come down to maybe a first week of making sure there's very few navigational errors to avoid losing time because of that but at some point they'll have to push on. This year the top 3 were 15 mins apart over ~47 hours of racing.

Riders certainly have areas of greater strength than others and overall (ie, looking at just timings) the differences aren't particularly noticeable but fans do start to notice each riders strengths and quirks.

Another "safety" discussion that comes up regularly is the change to 450cc which was meant to slow riders down. There's a somewhat general consensus that it just means that riders ride at the bikes limit or WOT more of the time down to being lighter, slightly lower powered, etc.
High speed sections are part and parcel of the dakar which you said and are somewhat necessary otherwise you have even long liaison sections. Then there's the risk, it's part of the attraction for those who go. Take away the risk and adrenaline and people stop paying to turn up!
There will unfortunately always be accidents and every mm makes the difference, Daniel Sanders hit a rock hidden under sand and bent the front wheel but a few others did the same and broke a bone or had to retire. Another difficult one to judge properly as the course changes every year!
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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by daveuprite » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:04 pm

Great discussion on here. Some really well informed peeps. I love watching it, and the Saudi setting is impressive, although I'm not convinced it matches the challenge that multi-national Saharan Africa used to provide. Sadly the original Dakar routes (Algeria, Niger, Mali, Mauritania etc) are still impossible to traverse safely. I was very lucky to have traveled a fair bit in these areas before civil war and islamic extremist groups made it unsafe. Maybe one day the Dakar Rally will return, but not imminently I think. I'd love to see a modern 450 rally bike hacking through Arak Gorge.

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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by catcitrus » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:35 pm

This still runs for the big stuff--I know one or two that still campaign the 950/990s on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_Eco_Race

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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by Hoggyf » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:48 pm

So what does knighter need to do next year to run right up at the sharp end? Improves navigation skills, I doubt he's lacking in speed over the ground, I'd like to have seen more of him, I Don't think I saw any footage on Eurosport of him riding sadly.
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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by boboneleg » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:13 pm

@Toe , I like your avatar.

Here's one that I've got.................
IMG_8067.jpeg
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Re: Dakar 2021 Finished

Post by Toe » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:31 pm

boboneleg wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:13 pm
@Toe , I like your avatar.

Here's one that I've got.................

IMG_8067.jpeg
This is fantastic! Properly loaded up and ready to go :lol:
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