Classic singles and long way round
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Classic singles and long way round
Hey everyone hope we are all well.
I'm pretty bored tonight so thought I'd kick a bit off a discussion off mainly out of personal curiosity.
I've just finished watching Mondo Sahara and been reading quite a bit off Austins and Chris Scott's interviews on here and it really did get me thinking what would the face of adventure motorcycling look like today for the wider populous if They had took bikes like Austin did in the DR and the XR.
Would the motorcycle industry have chased down the lighter lower cc route and affordability, that would have opened motorcycling up to more and made it seen as something more accessible. I remember LRW sparking the adventure bug in me which inevitably led to a few GS's when looking back I would've been personally better served by saving a ton of money getting a Dr or the like but wasn't aware off them (grown up around racing Nortons. Very much my thoughts are echoing what Austin said in his interview on here.
https://www.adventurebikerider.com/arti ... tin-vince/
So I've been thinking (dangerous I know) about classic singles say from multiple eras. Being in my early 30s I've only experienced the ones I've owned.
Which is a 1927 Norton 16H long stroke crazily fast 252lbs and 4.9hp.
1944 Norton RAF WD16H 5 3/4 ground clearance about 14 hp or so from memory 176kg dry and 68mph top speed.
Not ridden that yet as my bad shoulder stopped me working on it but I've got a few mates who do big miles on them. Should have mine going this year.
An now the modern Himalayan which has really impressed me since I let the 1200gs te Rallye go for it. We all know what those are like so won't bother linking my vids.
That got me thinking about the late 50s and early 60s long stroke big cc singles. Like the Matchless G80CS.
Then into the early Japanese Dual Sport stuff like Yamahas XT500, The first Tenere 600 an then the Later Honda XR 400s and 650s. Naturally off course the Suzuki DR range any cc as well. That's 3 entire eras 70s 80s and 90s Dual Sport an adv travel bikes that I've not experienced yet. I have had 2x rd350lcs 2x 250lcs did 2000 miles in a week on one of those an rzv500r, gsx750et and a rd250c air-cooled from the 70s though.
So with that in mind whos had any did they really weigh what they were meant to. What were your favourites from the 70s, 80s and 90s and why an what direction do you think the Adv industry would be in now if the influence of LRW had been different. I wonder what technological advantages would have been chased rather than more cc and more tech which = more weight and simplicity and ease off working on your bike like the old Norton sidevalves had been the order off the day.
I'm pretty bored tonight so thought I'd kick a bit off a discussion off mainly out of personal curiosity.
I've just finished watching Mondo Sahara and been reading quite a bit off Austins and Chris Scott's interviews on here and it really did get me thinking what would the face of adventure motorcycling look like today for the wider populous if They had took bikes like Austin did in the DR and the XR.
Would the motorcycle industry have chased down the lighter lower cc route and affordability, that would have opened motorcycling up to more and made it seen as something more accessible. I remember LRW sparking the adventure bug in me which inevitably led to a few GS's when looking back I would've been personally better served by saving a ton of money getting a Dr or the like but wasn't aware off them (grown up around racing Nortons. Very much my thoughts are echoing what Austin said in his interview on here.
https://www.adventurebikerider.com/arti ... tin-vince/
So I've been thinking (dangerous I know) about classic singles say from multiple eras. Being in my early 30s I've only experienced the ones I've owned.
Which is a 1927 Norton 16H long stroke crazily fast 252lbs and 4.9hp.
1944 Norton RAF WD16H 5 3/4 ground clearance about 14 hp or so from memory 176kg dry and 68mph top speed.
Not ridden that yet as my bad shoulder stopped me working on it but I've got a few mates who do big miles on them. Should have mine going this year.
An now the modern Himalayan which has really impressed me since I let the 1200gs te Rallye go for it. We all know what those are like so won't bother linking my vids.
That got me thinking about the late 50s and early 60s long stroke big cc singles. Like the Matchless G80CS.
Then into the early Japanese Dual Sport stuff like Yamahas XT500, The first Tenere 600 an then the Later Honda XR 400s and 650s. Naturally off course the Suzuki DR range any cc as well. That's 3 entire eras 70s 80s and 90s Dual Sport an adv travel bikes that I've not experienced yet. I have had 2x rd350lcs 2x 250lcs did 2000 miles in a week on one of those an rzv500r, gsx750et and a rd250c air-cooled from the 70s though.
So with that in mind whos had any did they really weigh what they were meant to. What were your favourites from the 70s, 80s and 90s and why an what direction do you think the Adv industry would be in now if the influence of LRW had been different. I wonder what technological advantages would have been chased rather than more cc and more tech which = more weight and simplicity and ease off working on your bike like the old Norton sidevalves had been the order off the day.
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the Honda CRF300, but what does it do for the rider that a DR350S didn't do back in the 1990s.
It's heavier and less powerful, but I'm not sure that's progress.
It's heavier and less powerful, but I'm not sure that's progress.
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
This is the sort off discussion I was curious to start Richard I was wondering if it was just me thinking in this sort off way.
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
Here's another one for you...back in the 1990s my then wife and I went to watch my brother race an enduro in Gloucestershire...an interesting track with a few brutal uphills, where most of the field struggled to maintain traction.
"The little silver bike is better on the hills than the big plastic ones," she correctly observed.
And yes indeed, the 1968 BSA Victor Special was passing most of the field on the climbs.
"The little silver bike is better on the hills than the big plastic ones," she correctly observed.
And yes indeed, the 1968 BSA Victor Special was passing most of the field on the climbs.
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
Now that I love mate I can totally get that with a BSA It's so easy to write some off the British bikes off I've experienced it with all the ones I've had even the 650ss very potent especially with the handling the flat tanker created a feeling of traction I'd never experienced before.
I think with the crfs an even the Himalayan I've got that possibly bikes like that could be the future as like with the forthcoming 1300gs where's the pogression gonna end eventually 2000cc? I almost feel like there needs to be a paradigm shift eventually.
I think in short that's the question I was trying to pose very much off the back of Austins interview as he touched on it to. In a way with lwr it pushed the development into these big adv bikes (not that I'm saying there isn't a place for them) but imagine the development that could have happened to bikes like the Himalayan an crf even the DR if lightweight and simplicity and affordability had been the focus off the day it might have pushed development in ways we havnt seen. I think it could have done even more than it did for inspiring people to ride an most of all could have got more people into bikes.
I think its an issue I saw happen in the industry I was in bigger better faster more expensive, then the companies all go through investment and then lack off work because everything's quicker so the work everyone could do has now been eaten up an then the companies themselves that made the kit have shot themselves in the foot.
In some ways pushing bikes 20k+ up could end up having the same effect an was curious if it was just me thinking like that.
Then on the other side off my post
Having missed the entire generations of adv with 70s, 80s, 90s itl be interesting to maybe experience one or two when the moves done an see the development path first hand through experience the question is though.
Xr 500, 600 tenere, Dr 350 or 650 it something else I've not thought off
I think with the crfs an even the Himalayan I've got that possibly bikes like that could be the future as like with the forthcoming 1300gs where's the pogression gonna end eventually 2000cc? I almost feel like there needs to be a paradigm shift eventually.
I think in short that's the question I was trying to pose very much off the back of Austins interview as he touched on it to. In a way with lwr it pushed the development into these big adv bikes (not that I'm saying there isn't a place for them) but imagine the development that could have happened to bikes like the Himalayan an crf even the DR if lightweight and simplicity and affordability had been the focus off the day it might have pushed development in ways we havnt seen. I think it could have done even more than it did for inspiring people to ride an most of all could have got more people into bikes.
I think its an issue I saw happen in the industry I was in bigger better faster more expensive, then the companies all go through investment and then lack off work because everything's quicker so the work everyone could do has now been eaten up an then the companies themselves that made the kit have shot themselves in the foot.
In some ways pushing bikes 20k+ up could end up having the same effect an was curious if it was just me thinking like that.
Then on the other side off my post
Having missed the entire generations of adv with 70s, 80s, 90s itl be interesting to maybe experience one or two when the moves done an see the development path first hand through experience the question is though.
Xr 500, 600 tenere, Dr 350 or 650 it something else I've not thought off
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
The simple answer. Reliability.Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:23 pm I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the Honda CRF300, but what does it do for the rider that a DR350S didn't do back in the 1990s.
It's heavier and less powerful, but I'm not sure that's progress.
Water cooling, so the engine is less likely to overheat.
Injection, so the bike has optimum power at all altitudes.
I don't remember exact numbers, but I believe it's about 3 times the distance between services.
For the Long Way series on smaller displacement bikes. I think it would have improved the series a lot. If they had taken, let's say 500cc bikes, we'd probably have many options for that sort of adventure bikes today.
It's funny to think that when Long Way came out, Adventure bikes were practcally unknown, now they are one of the bigger classes of bikes.
Champagne taste on beer budget.
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
Emissions in itRichard Simpson Mark II wrote:I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the Honda CRF300, but what does it do for the rider that a DR350S didn't do back in the 1990s.
It's heavier and less powerful, but I'm not sure that's progress.
We buy things we don't need
With money we don't have
To impress people we don't even like
With money we don't have
To impress people we don't even like
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
Agreed. Like the rest of you I've run a few of these older and newer bikes. I adored my DR350 and my DR 650 but the Honda Rally was so reliable that it was a different class, I took the rally 500miles one day flat out on motorways non stop just stopping for fuel, it didn't miss a beat or use any oil.
That said, if someone arrived with a new one of each and said I could choose one for free the Rally would be staying on the truck for sure.
That said, if someone arrived with a new one of each and said I could choose one for free the Rally would be staying on the truck for sure.
Magnusson wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:43 pmThe simple answer. Reliability.Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:23 pm I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the Honda CRF300, but what does it do for the rider that a DR350S didn't do back in the 1990s.
It's heavier and less powerful, but I'm not sure that's progress.
Water cooling, so the engine is less likely to overheat.
Injection, so the bike has optimum power at all altitudes.
I don't remember exact numbers, but I believe it's about 3 times the distance between services.
For the Long Way series on smaller displacement bikes. I think it would have improved the series a lot. If they had taken, let's say 500cc bikes, we'd probably have many options for that sort of adventure bikes today.
It's funny to think that when Long Way came out, Adventure bikes were practcally unknown, now they are one of the bigger classes of bikes.
And now, Harry, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.
Suzuki DR200 Djebel.
Suzuki DR200 Djebel.
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Re: Classic singles and long way round
XR400R all you will ever need
We buy things we don't need
With money we don't have
To impress people we don't even like
With money we don't have
To impress people we don't even like
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