Morning
Had an interesting conversation last night with a chap I know.
I was explaining how I want another bike but don't know what to get...I said I like TTRs, XTs, Africa twins, Tenere 750's and so on. He himself is a massive bike nut and races enduros, rallys, adventures here there and everywhere. He also lives in the past and hates new bikes!
He said he doesn't like new bikes because of the electronics and fuel injection which he said on a bike that will go off road (get drowned, ride in sand e.t.c) but also used for possibly long stretches of tarmac is a bad thing. I must admit...I kind of agree with him. (mind you...he is a real old fashioned tight arse! I can say that, he doesn't read this forum )
His point was you see old bikes that are battered, massive miles on the clock and there still running sound as a pound. But what about in 10 - 20 years time.....where do you think the new GS's and tenere's and so on will be?
Will they still be going but will of had loads of cash spent on them to keep them running?? will they be on the scrap heap? Is build quality getting better or worse?
We all like simple bikes as there easier and cheaper to fix, be we also like them to be as good as they can be...which normally incorporates technology, which usually costs $$. But surely with how the world is changing with regards to emitions and so on engines are having to get clever. So does that mean what you save in fuel by getting 75mpg you pay back out in repair bills because it takes a mechanic to fix the electronic wizardry?!
New Vs old
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Re: New Vs old
Royal Enfields all round !! :laugh:
Over a long enough timeline, everyones survival rate drops to zero
Re: New Vs old
Great thread Phil. Will look forward to seeing how opinions differ on this.
For my own part I was never confident doing any "mechanical" work on my VFR800 VTEC (new) simply as it looked like a complete maze of wiring, strange little black boxes, and loads of other really complicated sounding acronyms that led me to believe that it was safer in the hands of a professional Honda engineer.
The KTM however (old) - I've had it apart already and have learnt loads about carburettors, the braking system, and all the other bits and pieces that I could possibly fix and service myself in the field, and during general use.
For my own part I was never confident doing any "mechanical" work on my VFR800 VTEC (new) simply as it looked like a complete maze of wiring, strange little black boxes, and loads of other really complicated sounding acronyms that led me to believe that it was safer in the hands of a professional Honda engineer.
The KTM however (old) - I've had it apart already and have learnt loads about carburettors, the braking system, and all the other bits and pieces that I could possibly fix and service myself in the field, and during general use.
My other bike is a CUBE Reaction GTC SL
Re: New Vs old
Hi there,
Great points. I have a royal enfield, great bike, not fast, but easy to fix at the side of the road. Economical and still a head turner. My BMW 650GS/twin, great bike, reasonably fast, reasonably economical, but although never broken down, things take longer to fix. So it is either going slower, with more miles or faster and probably less miles?
Cheers
Mike G.
Great points. I have a royal enfield, great bike, not fast, but easy to fix at the side of the road. Economical and still a head turner. My BMW 650GS/twin, great bike, reasonably fast, reasonably economical, but although never broken down, things take longer to fix. So it is either going slower, with more miles or faster and probably less miles?
Cheers
Mike G.
Re: New Vs old
It's kind of a moot argument because we won't know about longevity of ECU controlled bikes etc for another few years
However, my (fuel injected) landcruiser (1996) has an ECU and is absolutely fine and has really been abused offroad.
However, my (fuel injected) landcruiser (1996) has an ECU and is absolutely fine and has really been abused offroad.
Re: New Vs old
Hi Phil...
My take on it is ...electronic either work or dont and most modern vehicles will do 200k no probs with regular servicing..yep the fuel pump or ecu might brake at 100k but compared to buying a new vehicle the service part will by then be cheap as the "pattern parts guys" will have cracked the original by then...unless its Bosch or siemens.
Most "modern" bikes still have loads of old design stuff on them cause its cheap and works fine..cost saving they call it.
After 3 years the "new" models have had the "bugs" ironed out and dodgy manufactured parts re-sourced..BMW comes to mind and Honda spokes too :whistle: ..
For me its a simple design engine " low compression" with modern suspension and wheels etc so a kind of Hybrid..
But saying that modern truck [off topic] have very high compression and every electric thing there is attached and they still do 1 milloin km.. :woohoo: I kid you not they do huge milage..
So just buy what you want for the task in hand..you`ll only get bored later
My take on it is ...electronic either work or dont and most modern vehicles will do 200k no probs with regular servicing..yep the fuel pump or ecu might brake at 100k but compared to buying a new vehicle the service part will by then be cheap as the "pattern parts guys" will have cracked the original by then...unless its Bosch or siemens.
Most "modern" bikes still have loads of old design stuff on them cause its cheap and works fine..cost saving they call it.
After 3 years the "new" models have had the "bugs" ironed out and dodgy manufactured parts re-sourced..BMW comes to mind and Honda spokes too :whistle: ..
For me its a simple design engine " low compression" with modern suspension and wheels etc so a kind of Hybrid..
But saying that modern truck [off topic] have very high compression and every electric thing there is attached and they still do 1 milloin km.. :woohoo: I kid you not they do huge milage..
So just buy what you want for the task in hand..you`ll only get bored later
- Steve T
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Re: New Vs old
I have an "old school" and a new generation machine in the garage - A 1999 Africa Twin and a 2009 F800GS.
My thread in the for sale section say's it all.
Steve T
B)
My thread in the for sale section say's it all.
Steve T
B)
ZEN DOG
He knows not where he's going, for the ocean will decide
It's not the destination . . . . . . . it's the glory of the ride
He knows not where he's going, for the ocean will decide
It's not the destination . . . . . . . it's the glory of the ride
Re: New Vs old
But saying that modern truck [off topic] have very high compression and every electric thing there is attached and they still do 1 milloin km.. :woohoo: I kid you not they do huge milage..
So just buy what you want for the task in hand..you`ll only get bored later [/quote]
Your not wrong there Tramp was driving a Scania 420 unit today 960,000 a 07 went well B)
So just buy what you want for the task in hand..you`ll only get bored later [/quote]
Your not wrong there Tramp was driving a Scania 420 unit today 960,000 a 07 went well B)
Bsa A10
Re: New Vs old
We had some ERF tractors at my last employers that had done over ONE MILLION MILES on Cummins Engines without a rebuild...
Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere
Toyota Hilux 3.0lt
Army - Bedford MJ Radar Repair Workshop
Toyota Hilux 3.0lt
Army - Bedford MJ Radar Repair Workshop
Re: New Vs old
In twenty years those of us that are left will be saying " remember switchable ABS and variable valve timing, those were the days". If its well engineered and built then it will last but the bean counters hold sway in most cases I am afraid. In the past we hankered after oil tight and vibration free steeds and when we get them we want retro!!! B)
The secret of a long life is knowing when its time to go.