E10 Fuels

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garyboy
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by garyboy »

one thing for sure ... its costing a LOT more now ... more than expected from just a ~ 20p per litre increase, plus reduced mileage performance of ~3% (was it?) allegedly.

a few weeks ago I used to put £20 in my Fiesta and go between 145 and 160 miles (depending on how the car felt that day, as driving style had no effect?) .... now I get 100 miles ,,

and that is using the so-called E5 (at 155p per litre).


that's about 40% decrease? or more?


ps ... its also very dark very early now and the traffic is very congested ..... horrible.

cant think of anything else to moan about at the moment ....
o .. yeah ... the end of the world .... fuuk me, if they dont agree summit by today, i am going to drown or burnt, by the end of the year .. but not at the same time, thank got.
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Scott_rider
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Scott_rider »

Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:30 pm I've heard....from contacts....that , just at the moment, there are problems with ethanol supply in the UK, and E10 currently isn't really anything like E10...as in the ethanol content is rather less than 10 per cent.
...I didn't realise until today that all E10 is not the same...which might explain our varying experiences of using it.
The following is taken from the Department of Transport (in the UK)...

"The current fuel standard for petrol is drafted such that any petrol containing between 0 and 10% ethanol can be labelled as E10, but only fuel with more than 5% ethanol must be labelled as E10".

I take that to read that E10 could therefore have anything from 0.1% up to 10% ethanol in it, and anything in between, depending on whose brand it is and where you buy it...have I got that right?
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Seminole »

"The current fuel standard for petrol is drafted such that any petrol containing between 0 and 10% ethanol can be labelled as E10, but only fuel with more than 5% ethanol must be labelled as E10".
Can you show the source for that?, its nonsense
catcitrus
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by catcitrus »

As I've said before pumps labelled E10 don't necessarily have to have right up to 10% ethanol--YET--there is an availability problem (industry source)--It just gives them the right to pump fuel at UP TO 10%, just as E5 means that they can pump UP TO 5% . Its a bit of a lottery at the moment, hence my view would be to stick with E5 to be on the safe side--and from a quality supplier. I repeat--where is the evidence that this muck actually has greener environmental credentials. You would do better to run a diesel and use 100% biodiesel!
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Scott_rider »

Seminole wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:11 pm
"The current fuel standard for petrol is drafted such that any petrol containing between 0 and 10% ethanol can be labelled as E10, but only fuel with more than 5% ethanol must be labelled as E10".
Can you show the source for that?, its nonsense
Yes, here it is. Page 16 of this document. And I stress, I'm not trying to cause an argument or be antagonistic. I was genuinely surprised, if this is still the case.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... tation.pdf
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Cornishman
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Cornishman »

Muck? Grow up, it’s a contemporary fuel that has been in regular use for over a decade that nearly every petrol vehicle sold this century has been designed to run on.
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II »

Article from Greenpeace here

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/food-fue ... conundrum/

HVO diesel, made from plant and animal waste, is pretty good stuff, but when farmland is used for fuel growing, or wild land is cleared to grow fuel, the argument for biofuel starts to fall down.

As the article states, most of the damage done will take place far away from us. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

IMO, E10 is virtue-signalling.

On another subject, I read an interesting paper the other day on how ammonia gas from farming was actually what was causing the formation of PM2.5 particles in cities: diesel engines weren't the villains of the piece that they had been portrayed as previously. Much of the atmospheric ammonia pollution from agriculture could be removed by injecting manures etc rather than spreading them. The injection technology is there already, my brother is already using slurry injection equipment in his farm contracting business, and there is less nitrate run-off to waterways too.

Will the Gvt do anything about this...?

Guess!
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II »

Scott_rider wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:53 pm
Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:30 pm I've heard....from contacts....that , just at the moment, there are problems with ethanol supply in the UK, and E10 currently isn't really anything like E10...as in the ethanol content is rather less than 10 per cent.
...I didn't realise until today that all E10 is not the same...which might explain our varying experiences of using it.
The following is taken from the Department of Transport (in the UK)...

"The current fuel standard for petrol is drafted such that any petrol containing between 0 and 10% ethanol can be labelled as E10, but only fuel with more than 5% ethanol must be labelled as E10".

I take that to read that E10 could therefore have anything from 0.1% up to 10% ethanol in it, and anything in between, depending on whose brand it is and where you buy it...have I got that right?

Yes...E10 just means adulteration of up to 10% is permitted.
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II »

Cornishman wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:22 am Oh dear. If true that somewhat dents all those claims about bikes that are miraculously cured by a tank full of 98.

the 98 also contains cleaning additives etc.

I've measured the consumption of my KTM 950, and my GasGas 250 stroker, and they both do better on the 'Super'...but the price is eye-watering at the moment.
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Re: E10 Fuels

Post by catcitrus »

On diesels and PM 2.5 I used to measure particle bursts down to about 15 nM---working for Research with Perkins--and we were trying to be as responsible as possible for the effect of our product--even though it was primarily offroad and low volume. I know it sounds odd but if you can see particles then don't worry too much. They get taken out in the upper airways and don't make it down to the alveoli and cross into the bloodstream. They fall out of the atmosphere pretty quickly and also take with them a lot of the volatile small particles that are the carcinogens--these condense on to the surface of the "lumps " of carbon and get taken out of the atmosphere with them. WITHOUT these condensation sites they float about for ages--and you would be surprised how quickly they can disperse based on concentration gradient.
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