E10 Fuels

Got a spanner in the works? Post your motorcycle problems here.
Crossrutted
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:18 pm
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 178 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Crossrutted »

This thread is a perfect exemplar of why I never "take any notice of a man on the internet". :lol:



(everybody knows the Moon IS made of cheese and the Earth IS flat!)
daveuprite
Posts: 4790
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:47 pm
Location: Limousin France
Has thanked: 2452 times
Been thanked: 3293 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by daveuprite »

Image
Brenhden
Posts: 6158
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:51 pm
Has thanked: 1177 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Brenhden »

Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:50 pm Last week the UK had to put one of its coal-burning powerstations back into service because 'renewables' couldn't meet demand on a warm and sunny Autumn day.

Domestic car chargers will apparently be disabled at times of peak domestic demand to 'avoid overloading the grid', starting with those installed from May.

So the grid can't even cope with current demand for 'green' electricity.

Has the penny dropped yet?
I didn't hear about the coal power station event. The beauty of a grid that uses a variety of sources is that can be flexible. Here is a report on it I found:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238

And a quote from it:
More coal has been burnt this summer in particular, due to soaring prices for natural gas.

Domestic car chargers are also designed to be flexible, this means the grid can run at peak efficiency, that's got to be a good thing. Remember economy 7 boilers?

Using phrases like 'Has the penny dropped' undermines your argument as they seem confrontational and supercilious.
And now, Harry, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.

Suzuki DR200 Djebel.
🇬🇧🇫🇷🇧🇪🇱🇺🇪🇸🇬🇷🇩🇪
catcitrus
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:36 pm
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 448 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by catcitrus »

couldn't resist getting back to the basic question (IMO)--"If we are thinking about CO2 emissions and global warming why is E10 better than E5, or basic petrol ?"--the problems it causes for older vehicles has already been recognised by official government releases--its basic chemistry. There is no doubt that you could run on pure ethanol in correctly designed systems. Dragsters run on pure nitromethane ,or being a little safer a mixture of nitromethane and a little methanol. Thats taking liquid oxygen injection to a whole new level with massive quantities injected--but an engine rebuild after each run? Methanol mixes well with oil and if left in the crankcase will explode--I used to help mechanic a guy that ran a drag bike. I bet higher volumes of ethanol in fuel have a negative effect on lubrication so there will be a practical limit on the percentage injected--as its for pascar only, and petrol only-and not diesel (transport lifeblood)--is it really worth the hassle?, and is there a clear positive reason for its use?--I'm afraid I'm not convinced at this stage--but I do like cheese.
Richard Simpson Mark II
Posts: 3516
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:03 pm
Has thanked: 1413 times
Been thanked: 1668 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II »

The point being that removing fossil fuels (including gas) from the 'mix' reduces capacity to a point below demand. We are already struggling...hence 'back to the future' with the coal station firing up again.

Penetration of electric cars into the market is still quite small, and we have barely started with CVs.

I was talking to a man from Ford at the launch of their electric vans at the CV Show. Ford is fully committed to electric vehicles, but as he pointed out with the CVs, once you have gone electric there is no alternative: companies won't run two fleets to do the work of one.

Most households with an electric car have a second vehicle...that's not practical for a fleet of CVs.

Charging arrangements are critical...a lot of van drivers take their work vehicle home (British Gas found this out the hard way when their fitters had nowhere to charge their vans).

En route charging for longer journeys is also critical...as he said vans will need a plan B and a plan C as availability of en-route charging is still really poor.

Critical questions remain over where the investment to support the grid to make it fit for electric vehicles is to come from...vast increases in generation, distribution and the provision of chargers all need funding. All at a time when Government income from fuel duty will taper off.

At present the 'solution' seems to be that you can use your car battery to power your house if the lights go brown...but that leaves aside the question of how you get to work the next day.

There was a possible solution at the CV Show...based on a London taxi...it had an electric motor and batteries and an on-board generator powered by a 1.6 litre Volvo car engine. Still needs petrol, though.

I repeat, 'has the penny dropped yet?'
garyboy
Posts: 4441
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:14 pm
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 992 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by garyboy »

There was a film made several years ago that clearly showed some northern guy, and his dog, travelling to the moon, and eating some of it .. it was weneslydale ..

The film was critically acclaimed and highly valued throughout the world, and shown many times.

Because billions of people and huge number of experts agreed with the film .. that makes it 'fact' ??
garyboy
Posts: 4441
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:14 pm
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 992 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by garyboy »

Fossil fuels will not be easily relinquished, as the world powers, use them for their power, including political power .. look how the human race has improved in wealth in our lifetime.. it is based on coal and oil etc ... that is why china, America, Russia, will not be letting fossils go any time soon .. and why boris is opening a new coal mine up north.

The political rivalry will not allow us to abandon fossils atm.
catcitrus
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:36 pm
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 448 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by catcitrus »

Richard Simpson Mark II wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:41 am The point being that removing fossil fuels (including gas) from the 'mix' reduces capacity to a point below demand. We are already struggling...hence 'back to the future' with the coal station firing up again.

Penetration of electric cars into the market is still quite small, and we have barely started with CVs.

I was talking to a man from Ford at the launch of their electric vans at the CV Show. Ford is fully committed to electric vehicles, but as he pointed out with the CVs, once you have gone electric there is no alternative: companies won't run two fleets to do the work of one.

Most households with an electric car have a second vehicle...that's not practical for a fleet of CVs.

Charging arrangements are critical...a lot of van drivers take their work vehicle home (British Gas found this out the hard way when their fitters had nowhere to charge their vans).

En route charging for longer journeys is also critical...as he said vans will need a plan B and a plan C as availability of en-route charging is still really poor.

Critical questions remain over where the investment to support the grid to make it fit for electric vehicles is to come from...vast increases in generation, distribution and the provision of chargers all need funding. All at a time when Government income from fuel duty will taper off.

At present the 'solution' seems to be that you can use your car battery to power your house if the lights go brown...but that leaves aside the question of how you get to work the next day.

There was a possible solution at the CV Show...based on a London taxi...it had an electric motor and batteries and an on-board generator powered by a 1.6 litre Volvo car engine. Still needs petrol, though.

I repeat, 'has the penny dropped yet?'
Agree with that---and you have touched on vans--but trucks won't be able to convert due to the size and weight of batteries required--let alone the infrastructure required--and will be diesel for some while yet--remember Elon Musk launching his truck--that has gone a bit quiet--I think it will be hydrogen fuel cells for trucks. I mentioned before chatting with a guy servicing an electric charge point and his van was "electric"--only had a decent range because of the generator pack under the bonnet(batteries were under the floor)--still required petrol--but classed as electric because the drive was always electric. This on board generator concept was being tried back in the 70s--with lead acid batteries!--also at that time Stirling engines were running around under the bonnet of Ford pick ups etc--now these are closed cycle and just require an external heat source. I used to run a 40 kW Philips 4 cylinder on a test bed with both AC and DC generators attached. The fuel could be anything injected into the nest of heater tubes to maintain 700C constantly--and super quiet of course. This was amongst other test bed engines at the Royal Naval Engineering College, Manadon, Plymouth. (now bulldozed by Portillo)--we even had a Stirling engine research facility (our interest was of course underwater none air breathing and none nuclear power sources). There are many ways to skin a cat!
Brenhden
Posts: 6158
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:51 pm
Has thanked: 1177 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Brenhden »

Off topic now, but it amazes me that the world has gone down the battery route and not the hydrogen route. I guess the Hindenburg casts a long shadow.
And now, Harry, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.

Suzuki DR200 Djebel.
🇬🇧🇫🇷🇧🇪🇱🇺🇪🇸🇬🇷🇩🇪
Crossrutted
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:18 pm
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 178 times

Re: E10 Fuels

Post by Crossrutted »

Brenhden wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:51 am I guess the Hindenburg casts a long shadow.

Not for very long, though..... Also there are a further (R)101 reasons not to use hydrogen! ;) :|
Post Reply

Return to “TECHNICAL”