Cast Wheels F650 GS

[abermarc]

Hi all,

I'm new here, hello!

Quick question to start me off but first a bit of background. I have fancied a GS for years and years and I've just bought an 11 plate F650GS which lucky for me (because no doubt I will have a few off's) has decent levels of protection and as far as I am concerned is good to go greenlaning.

Now I am an avid life Land Rover fan, greenlaning lover, adventure mad type. I've covered off NPTC Off Road Driving Level 2 inc. winching and trailers and I've done LANTRA and upto instructor level in off-road driving, So I know a thing or two about getting off the tarmac. In the past I have had Land Rovers with both steel and alloy wheels and I must say I have never had an issue with the alloys. I suspect that in part is due to my driving ability and possibly a little bit of luck but so far so good.

Question therefore is this. Does the same apply to bikes in terms of alloys vs spoked. If so, I can crack on and stop taking any notice of all the horror stories I read about only using spoked. I know cast wheels aren't as good but also know that on easy going terrain with a sensible rider they are going to be just fine.

Thanks all,

Marc

[zimtim]

Hi welcome
Greenlaning on two wheels is a whole different ball game.
You'll find you can go faster and into totally different areas that your Landy could ever take. And vice versa.
As to the wheels with off roading you may well need to drop the psi in your tyres as no doubt you are well aware of the reasoning behind that.
Hitting a hidden rock or boulder, with under inflated tyres will undoubtedly crack your wheel be it the rim or one of the spokes.
With spoked wheels there is a little more flex in the wheel so a similar hit will not result in any damage
Unless you have a KTM with their soft as butter rims in which case.it.will dent

[abermarc]

Fair point, thanks for the advice, appreciate that. So is there scope to put spoked tubed wheels on a f650 or is that a no go?

By the way, just to be clear I will be greenlaning and not off-roading. They are not the same thing. On a greenlane, in theory at least, it should not matter if you are a horse and cart, bike, or 4x4. Because its an unsurfaced byway where the highway code and road traffic act apply so technically there is only one route. Of course I understand that some BOATs these days are more technical and challenging than others but I'll be avoiding those ones in any case. One should only ever be offroad on private land.

[Steve T]

I used my F650GS twin to do the Paddy Dakar back in 2015 and it was fine. And that was after having a thrash round Galloway forest on the way to catch the ferry, and before that I was blatting about on the forest tracks of Argyl , all fully loaded up

Mainly graded tracks with the occasional reet muddy and grassy bit thrown in, but the bike, shod with Mitas E09 Dakars managed it no bovver

A "do-it-all" machine, only surpassed by it's longer legged bruvver, the F8GS, IMHO

Steve T

[Chris S]

If so, I can crack on and stop taking any notice of all the horror stories I read about only using spoked. I know cast wheels aren't as good but also know that on easy going terrain with a sensible rider they are going to be just fine.

The sort of terrain you can manage on that bike - the 220-kg twin? - will not be much faster than a Landrover. In deep UK ruts you may well be slower. On rocks or corrugations, light bikes are much faster.
Also, most alloy rims on modern bikes are tubeless; as worthwhile a feature as it is on cars.
As mentioned, you can also dent spoked rims, as well as bend or break spokes (all happened to me), but because most spoked are tubed - apart from high-end bikes* - no air is lost as it would be with alloys.

*What's happened lately is that wire wheels have become a marketing signifier of 'adventure' so 'plain' or 'road-ish' version of big KTMs, BMs and Triumphs come with TL alloy wheels (usually 19"), but the top-of-the-range model with come with (expensive) tubeless spoked (sometimes 21") - purely imo for the look or perception. There will be very few people able to wring the supposed benefits of wire wheels on a 250-kilo machine.
You even see experienced bike journalists parroting: "Oh, it's got wire wheels so it'll be great in the dirt..."

I agree on pure off-road competition bikes of <150kg which will be running tubes or some kind of mousse (for very low pressures), spokes are the norm. I presume the flex is a factor which also means the spokes can- and will need maintaining.

For green-laning tyres (and low pressures) make a huge difference, but too low pressure can risk pinching a tube on a hard hit, and supposedly can risk a TL burp (urban myth I suspect, but happy to be proved wrong). The gnarlier the tyre (see here), the less need for low pressures and attendant risks; at least that's my theory.

All-terrain tyre pressures will be as with cars: as high as possible; as low as necessary.

So is there scope to put spoked tubed wheels on a f650 or is that a no go?

Don't go there (I have ;-) - hubs and alignment issues. And all for what, unless TL is the goal?
If you can, get a bike with the stock wheels you want.

In dry Moroccan conditions, I've found the 650/700 twins to be pretty good on the dirt (tyres less important there).
Great suspension and low CoG.
The single is OK and was once very popular, but is heavy for what it is.

If green-laning in the UK is your primary intention, you will enjoy it much more (and get the hang of it faster) on a much lighter bike like a 250 trailie.
Single or twin; a 650 BM is an unusual choice for this. Ask a TRF-er

[Elmer J Fudd]

An interesting question to ask after you bought the bike......

For what you describe you should be OK, but could come a cropper if you decide to turn it up a notch, but no fun in not finding out.

AA cover?

[Richard Simpson Mark II]

I can foresee some potential problems...but they may never materialise.

1) Cast wheels are very rigid and will convey shocks to the chassis. There was an issue with fork leg integrity on early versions of your bike (it's what happens when you source components from China).

2) Getting tyres to stay on the rims at lower pressures may be an issue.

3) A dinged rim will mean a new wheel...a dinged rim on a wire-spoked wheel just means a new rim.

The bike you've got will be fine on easy trails in the summer: but in Land Rover terms it's a Freelander I, not a SWB Defender V8. Nor is it a rally car.

The most important thing is appropriate tyre choice...pretty much any motorcycle is defined by its tyres, and this is particularly true for 'soft-roaders' like the BM.

Don't buy a tyre because it 'looks cool', has the word 'enduro' on the sidewall, or has a famous brand name.

Be honest about what you expect to do, and remember that enhanced off-tarmac grip can compromise on-road handling and tyre life. Ask on here for people's real-life experiences.

[abermarc]

For the most part all the replies seem to suggest same issues as with 4x4's re damaging an alloy and not being able to bash it back into shape easily. Lowering pressures when needed but finding the balance between getting it right and not splitting the bead. I've been using alloys probably for the past 2 years now on a Land Rover having switched from steels when I went from a Defender 90 to a Discovery 3. But I'm really talking graded tracks here not extreme rocky mud filled pits! Nor am talking about hitting them at any great speed, it'll be very much a leisurely pursuit for me. Mainly because I'll still be out with the Land Rovers and not other bikes for the most part - so freelander is fine

I should also add that it's main purpose will be a commuter. Approx 100 mile a day (but not every day - only when the weather is nice'ish - rest of time it'll be a Land Rover journey). I suspect It'll be a 90/10 relationship in terms of on-tarmac/unsurfaced roads. I suspect that might also apply to 'my time' as well, as in I'll still want to tour a bit but mostly roadwork I suspect and almost always in the UK. Anything abroad such as Morocco/Spain etc will require me taking LR as SWMBO will likely want to tag along with little'un.

BTW: I don't want to ask the TRF. I seen what many of them think of the GS', nice a bunch as they are I'm sure. In fact I often bump into some of the members on the trails in the LR and they always take a shine to the Land Rover

In terms of tyres it currently has Metzler Tourance front and rear but I may change those once they have worn. I am far from a bike/tyre expert as you can imagine but I gather these are good to have. I have also seen Conti's TKC70 which also grabbed my attention but I'd take any advice on tyre choice.

[Chalky723]

I've got a 650 Twin, mainly for commuting, but do the odd lane too.

For what you want, it should be fine - mine is in it's element blatting round Salisbury Plain - just look ahead & remember how heavy it is.

I can't afford to sink it in a bottomless pit or shatter something as I need it for getting to work!

One plus side (for me) is that it's pretty easy to quickly fix most punctures on a tubeless tyre too....

D

[abermarc]

I've got a 650 Twin, mainly for commuting, but do the odd lane too.

For what you want, it should be fine - mine is in it's element blatting round Salisbury Plain - just look ahead & remember how heavy it is.

I can't afford to sink it in a bottomless pit or shatter something as I need it for getting to work!

One plus side (for me) is that it's pretty easy to quickly fix most punctures on a tubeless tyre too....

D

Sounds pretty identical to my situation and expectations. Thank you.

Out of interest what repair kit do you use for punctures?